Re: [asa] Finger on Sodom and Gomorah?

Merv,

Nicely stated. The subjective realm, religion or philosophy, is a indeed a superset over science. Science has willingly restricted itself to the objective realm, which makes it very effective and transportable.

I would like to add that religions that are more plausible than those that are not. Faiths based on unbelievable stories, become unbelievable themselves. That doesn't mean, however, that miracles are unbelievable. The conflict comes when science does have something to say about a claim.

There should be some kind of Bolster Scale, perhaps, that rates scientific impact upon religious claims. [Hmmmm.... make that a Reinforcing Scale]. For example, this finger story might be an RS of 2, and the discovery of Noah's ark intact a 10. Of course, this would still be a subjective scale, but it gives some emphasis for the scientific arguments that help make a claim more plausible.

George Cooper

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Merv
  To: asa@calvin.edu
  Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 6:20 PM
  Subject: Re: [asa] Finger on Sodom and Gomorah?

  If I may roast some of the smaller fish here just a bit more ... I don't think the "need" is on the supernatural / miracle / God did it, side. The need is from the science side of things. It is science that needs to explain things. And when it encounters something supernatural, then science will, by definition, fail. But that won't lessen its need to try. And in cases where science does succeed, that does not prove that God was not involved. Theologians may also have a need to explain things as well, but their domain is a superset of science and its tools.

  --Merv

  Dehler, Bernie wrote:
    I'm not sure if you need science to explain a miracle, such as God sending fire from heaven onto Sodom. Does Moses parting the sea have to be explained by science, or Jesus changing water into wine, or Jesus multiplying loaves and fishes? If not, then why does fire from heaven need a scientific explanation? It seems to me to be a waste of time (and time is precious) when trying to speculate how these miracles could have come about through natural processes. when there are much bigger fish to fry.

    What are the bigger fish? Well, if you are trying to reach an unbeliever for Christ, see what they are interested in to help them (such as evolution vs. creation, etc.). At some point, a belief in the supernatural is required for the Christian faith. Once you have the supernatural, then miracles aren't a problem, unless they conflict with history or scientific evidence (such as a literal worldwide flood being contradicted by evidence in nature). There are some major difficulties with a literal reading of the bible with science, and for that, we need to have answers. and I think we have a way to go on that.

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Received on Thu Dec 20 11:03:36 2007