RE: [asa] Has a Christian Evolutionist written this yet? - Famous TE's

Terry said:
" Finally, if Van Till says that God just started it off at the big
bang--which is a very unnuanced way of putting Van Till's viewpoint--
then Van Till is a deistic evolutionist. Setting the process up and
starting it off and then letting it unwind is deism not theism."

But you can set it off and let it unwind... and also believe in miracles
such as Christ coming into the world from heaven, changing water into
wine, and rising from the dead; things Deists don't like or believe...
they don't believe in miracles and the gospel.

Terry said:
"Why haven't folks like B.B. Warfield been mentioned as being among the

famous TE's. My view, which I count as TE, is nearly identical to his.

i would also include others mentioned in David Livingstone's book

"Darwin's Forgotten Defenders". Some dispute whether or not Warfield

was a TE and there does appear to be some ambivalence."

So if Warfield is suspicious, he may be a "closet" TE. I was looking
for vocal and loud ones.

...Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of Terry M. Gray
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:57 AM
To: AmericanScientificAffiliation
Subject: Re: [asa] Has a Christian Evolutionist written this yet? -
Famous TE's

This thread and the "Famous TE" thread has amazed me to some degree.

Here are a few thoughts.

One view of TE, my own and many other more "Calvinistic" leaning

folks, and one that I've written about before even recently, sees

everything as under God's providential and governing hand. So, the

issue that Bernie raises is answered by saying that evolution (and

other aspects of creation, including history) are the products of his

moment by moment plan and implementation of that plan. Yes, this leads

to a "problem of evil" but not one that Calvinistic theology in

general doesn't deal with.

Why haven't folks like B.B. Warfield been mentioned as being among the

famous TE's. My view, which I count as TE, is nearly identical to his.

i would also include others mentioned in David Livingstone's book

"Darwin's Forgotten Defenders". Some dispute whether or not Warfield

was a TE and there does appear to be some ambivalence. See the book by

Livingstone and Noll that is a collection of Warfield's writings on

science and scripture. But, by and large, understanding God's

providence the way I describe in the first paragraph clears the way

for an evolutionary process that is fully under God's detailed

control. What happens in this view, that some on the least seem to

"need" is that you cannot say that the scientific evidence

necessitates God's involvement. His involvement is relatively

undetectable and hidden, just as it is for most of his interaction

with the creation order. In other words, we know of God's involvement

because of scripture, not because science demands it.

Finally, if Van Till says that God just started it off at the big

bang--which is a very unnuanced way of putting Van Till's viewpoint--

then Van Till is a deistic evolutionist. Setting the process up and

starting it off and then letting it unwind is deism not theism.

TG

On Dec 17, 2007, at 5:03 PM, Dehler, Bernie wrote:

> Hi all-

>

> Does anyone know of a book that someone has written that basically

> explains that God uses evolution as his design means? I mean, that

> God

> is actively engaged in messing with DNA code as a programmer writing

> computer code, not simply just starting it all off at the big bang, as

> Howard Van Till would say. I'm thinking of a combination of

> Intelligent

> Design (not ID as it is now) with Evolution. Basically, the

> conclusion

> is drawn from:

>

> 1. Evolution is too unlikely as to have happened naturally (ex.

> anthropic principle & origin of life mysteries).

> 2. Genome evidence shows evolution happened (ex. pseudogenes).

> 3. Therefore, evolution happened supernaturally.

>

> I would call the position "Christian Evolution," and a follower a

> "Christian Evolutionist." It is the Christian faith combined with

> evolution... I hope that isn't syncretistic.

>

> Atheists may say that "evolution is an unguided process of creating

> more complex life-forms from simpler," but the Christian Evolutionist

> can say it is the "guided" process. Then a tough question would be

> "if

> God is guiding it, then why is there so much disease and bad genes?"

> Good one.

>

>

> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with

> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.

________________

Terry M. Gray, Ph.D.

Computer Support Scientist

Chemistry Department

Colorado State University

Fort Collins, CO 80523

(o) 970-491-7003 (f) 970-491-1801

To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with

"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.

To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Tue Dec 18 14:38:43 2007