[asa] Secret Emails Reveal How ISU Faculty...

John,

The carpet fiber is objective evidence. If the matching of carpet fibers
can be shown objectively to constitute a direct connection to the accused,
then this evidence can serve in the way finger prints and DNA serve as
evidence.

This is not the same for ID which is a subjective based view, IMO. To
believe that God is manipulating certain motorized bacterial formations is a
subjective, not objective.

GeorgeA

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Walley" <john_walley@yahoo.com>
To: "'PvM'" <pvm.pandas@gmail.com>
Cc: "'_American Sci Affil'" <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 9:51 AM
Subject: RE: [asa] Secret Emails Reveal How ISU Faculty Plotted to Deny
Distinguished Astronomer Tenure

> Pim,
>
> You have to keep up. I am not going to spell it all out for you again.
>
> Bottom line, neither ID nor forensic carpet fiber evidence is 100%
> conclusive in the scientific sense because both us and the carpet fiber
> could have been planted by aliens, but we deduce Wayne Williams guilt from
> one but deny GG his tenure for making the same rational deductions from
> the
> other.
>
> The obvious implications of the anthropic principle is that all these
> coincidences proves that there is a Designer. There is no getting around
> that. That is not unscientific. It is just rational.
>
> John
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of PvM
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 12:25 AM
> To: John Walley
> Cc: _American Sci Affil
> Subject: Re: [asa] Secret Emails Reveal How ISU Faculty Plotted to Deny
> Distinguished Astronomer Tenure
>
> Why? What is the equivalent of carpet fiber evidence which is matched
> to a known carpet?
>
> Analogies have limited value indeed.
>
> What is the obvious implication of the anthropic principle?
>
> On Dec 6, 2007 9:03 PM, John Walley <john_walley@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> For GG to conclude a designer from all the just right characteristics of
> the
>> universe is just as "scientific" as a jury finding Wayne Williams guilty
> of
>> capital murder based on carpet fiber evidence.
>>
>> This is the hypocrisy of academia and those that deny the overwhelmingly
>> obvious implications of the anthropic principle (aka, design inference)
> in
>> nature.
>>
>> John
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
>> Behalf Of PvM
>> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 11:07 PM
>> To: John Walley
>> Cc: _American Sci Affil
>> Subject: Re: [asa] Secret Emails Reveal How ISU Faculty Plotted to Deny
>> Distinguished Astronomer Tenure
>>
>>
>> What I find so fascinating is how the media has mostly refused to
>> accept the claims by the Discovery Institute and I have looked at some
>> of this supposed evidence and found that the arguments are pretty weak
>> at best.
>>
>> Sure, Gonzalez's involvement with Intelligent Design were a concern to
>> the faculty but the Discovery Institute is making some assertions
>> which I find poorly supported by the evidence. Some people have looked
>> at the publication record of Gonzalez (and Behe) and found a
>> remarkable trend.
>>
>> Also interesting is how Rosenberg was quoted and what the full quote
>> revealed
>>
>> <quote>
>> "Contrary to his public statements, and those of ISU President
>> Gregory Geoffroy, the chairman of ISU's Department of Physics and
>> Astronomy, Dr. Eli Rosenberg, stated in Dr. Gonzalez's tenure dossier
>> that Dr. Gonzalez's support for intelligent design 'disqualifies him
>> from serving as a science educator.'"
>>
>> <quote>
>> The full context of that quotation is:
>>
>> <quote> "on numerous occasions, Dr. Gonzalez has stated that
>> Intelligent Design is a scientific theory and someday would be taught
>> in science classrooms. This is confirmed by his numerous postings on
>> the Discovery Institute Web site. The problem here is that Intelligent
>> Design is not a scientific theory. Its premise is beyond the realm of
>> science. . But it is incumbent on a science educator to clearly
>> understand and be able to articulate what science is and what it is
>> not. The fact that Dr. Gonzalez does not understand what constitutes
>> both science and a scientific theory disqualifies him from serving as
>> a science educator."
>> </quote>
>>
>> Now the DI may be able to help Gonzalez by arguing that this was
>> religious discrimination but that would involve accepting that ID is
>> religious. Not a very palatable choice. Instead, the DI seems to have
>> moved from tenure to viewpoint discrimination and hostile workplace.
>> Again, not a very plausible argument either.
>>
>> The DI attempted to generate media interest in the Gonzalez case and
>> failed, outside Iowa few noticed and within Iowa the reception was
>> mixed.
>> They lost in the scientific arena, they are losing in the media arena,
>> and they are losing amongst conservatives.
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
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Received on Fri Dec 7 11:11:15 2007