Re: [asa]The Barr letter( request for some resources)

Merv,
When you cite II Tim. 3:16, you do so carelessly. What part of the verse
gives factual authority to history, to science, to the like? The folks
connected to the Reformation recognized what Scripture teaches, that we
learn all we need to know for our salvation and our behavior. Check the
confessions and catechisms.
Dave

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 15:56:47 -0500 mrb22667@kansas.net writes:
> Quoting "D. F. Siemens, Jr." <dfsiemensjr@juno.com>:
>
> >
> > On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 11:42:28 +1200 Don Nield
> <d.nield@auckland.ac.nz>
> > writes:
> > > I am returning to this ASA thread after locating my copy of
> Barr's
> > > book
> > > . I cite extracts from Barr's book below, between rows of 8's.
> > > Barr is clearly of the opinion that both the YECs (as
> represented by
> > > the
> > > AiG people) and the OEC scientific concordists have at the
> outset
> > > made a
> > > category error. They have made a mistake in identifying the
> genre of
> > >
> > > Genesis 1:1-2:4b.
> > > The OEC scientific concordists have also violated a basic
> > > hermeneutical
> > > principle -- that the meaning of a word should be ascertained in
> its
> > >
> > > context rather than invoking the full semantic range of the
> word.
> > >
> > > 88888888
> > > James Barr, Escaping from Fundamentalism, SCM Press, 1984
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > > p.135. [N]o one in the Bible said, and no one in ancient times
> in
> > > Israel
> > > supposed, that God had told, or revealed, or related the story
> that
> > > now
> > > stands as the first chapter of the Bible. It simply does not say
> in
> > > the
> > > Bible that the material in Gen. 1., of any of the narratives of
> > > creation, is there because it was spoken or revealed by God.
> This
> > > was
> > > “Wisdom”, the product of men of faith who had observed the world
>
> > > with
> > > such means as they had and integrated into the story of creation
>
> > > their
> > > balanced judgment on numerous theological problems which had
> best
> > > the
> > > religion of Israel. By placing this account at the very start of
> the
> > >
> > > Bible they gave deservedly high importance to it. But they did
> not
> > > regard it as direct divine revelation and nowhere did they say
> so.
> > > <snip>
> >
> > I fear he has jumped to a conclusion too quickly. How often in the
> Wisdom
> > books has "God said" been stated? Does he document his claim that
> this
> > comes from the Wisdom tradition? I find the phrase noted of
> messages to
> > patriarchs and prophets, from Genesis through Malachi. The unusual
> > evening-morning sequence in Genesis 1 (and, if my memory serves,
> only one
> > other place in the Hebrew scriptures) is compatible with the
> giving of
> > visions, hence of its being revelation. So I don't think the
> problem is
> > solved by Barr's claim. Beyond its apologetic purpose, there seem
> to be
> > complications of interpretation.
> > Dave
> >
>
> complication -- yes, not to mention that Jesus himself refers back
> to the
> creation account (Mark 10:6) and uses it as authoritative to correct
> the
> Pharisees.
>
> And furthermore ... while scholars may not accept this, most YECs
> think of God
> as not only directly inspiring the Scriptures, but also overseeing
> their
> compilation and the process of giving us our current canon. So when
> they read
> in II Tim. 3:16 that "All Scripture is inspired..." they freely
> take that to
> include Gen 1:1 to Rev. 22:21 even if the current canon as we know
> it didn't yet
> exist (and indeed wasn't even completely written yet.) But since
> God is
> overseeing it, temporal problems aren't problems at all. Scholars
> sneer. The
> faithful take it as a matter of faith -- and are not impressed by
> the
> scholarship assumptions. The chasm widens.
>
> Having said that, though, Barr's point about correcting theology by
> using
> theology (as early church fathers would have done prior to any
> geological
> motivations) is well taken. And the framework theory ought to be
> supported in
> exactly that way if it is to reach those not inclined.
>
> --Merv
>
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Received on Wed Jun 20 00:59:33 2007