Re: [asa] Letter to thinking Christians (and other theists)

-- 
James Mahaffy (mahaffy@dordt.edu)          Phone: 712 722-6279
498 4th Ave NE
Biology Department                                     FAX :  712
722-1198
Dordt College, Sioux Center IA 51250-1697
>>> On 4/16/2007 at 10:07 AM, in message
<20070416152745.D79CB710CA4@gray.dordt.edu>, "Michael Roberts"
<michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
> My sympathies with you David.
> 
> As I have said before on this list, it is this kind of behaviour why
I 
> cannot take ID or YEC seriously. (Would James McHaffy care to comment
on 
> Dembksi and O'Leary's behaviour?)
Since you asked Michael, I will.  (please note the last name is
Mahaffy)
Denyse tends sometimes to overgeneralize and I think she has in this
case.  However, she is listened to in ID circles and I don't like the
idea that all ASAers are made out to be some type of TE to be what gets
spread around.  
However, as I have mentioned before judging the nature of ASA by some
of the posters on this lis gives a false impression. 
And Michael in this very post in which you complain probably rightly of
the misrepresentation of Denyse you slam Bill in an unfair manner and
suggest he is an agent for Dawkins. You know that is not true and I
would suggest is JUST as much a false statement about a good man.  Shame
on you.
It is probably also true that some IDer's are too sensitive to
criticism but they are working in a MUCH more hostile environment. 
Remember that TE does not conflict as much as does ID with the secular
world and life view out there in science.
bcc to a colleage at Dordt (I don't want his e-mail out there on the
public archives).
> 
> How they can reconcile this kind of misrepresentation with Christian
honesty 
> I do not know. Further there is no need to rubbish others as did
Nelson over 
> my late friend Peacocke and also Keith Miller.
> 
> All this results in ID not only having zilch intellectual worth but
no moral 
> worth either.
> 
> I am tempted to ask if Dembski and acolytes are not agents for
Dawkins
> 
> Michael
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: David Opderbeck 
>   To: Dawsonzhu@aol.com 
>   Cc: pvm.pandas@gmail.com ; asa@calvin.edu 
>   Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 4:09 AM
>   Subject: Re: [asa] Letter to thinking Christians (and other
theists)
> 
> 
>   Well, finally the other shoe dropped -- Bill Dembski removed me
from the UD 
> discussion.  I invite you all to take a look at what I wrote and
determine 
> for yourselves whether it was warranted.  It's really too bad --I'd
like to 
> have added something to the discussion of secondary causes, which, in
typical 
> fashion, is getting botched by Bill's and Denyse's sycophantic
commentators. 
> 
>   Shame on you, Bill, for letting this travesty of a post be
published and 
> for removing me as a result of a comment based on what actually
transpired 
> here on the ASA list and on a theological point about Aquinas.  You
are 
> losing whatever battle it is you're fighting, and this kind of thing
is why. 
> 
>    
>   On 4/15/07, Dawsonzhu@aol.com <Dawsonzhu@aol.com> wrote: 
>     Within Denyse O'Leary's screed, 
> 
> 
>       What you need to ask is a much simpler
>       and entirely determinable question: Is this stuff compatible
with your 
> 
>       spiritual tradition? If not, recognize the situation for what
it is:
>       undermining from within
> 
> 
>     Hmmm, "spiritual tradition".... as in what, which
>     whose, where?
> 
>     I don't think Calvin dwells much on what a soul is 
>     does he?  He usually seemed to have the good sense 
>     to stay out of meddling in matters well outside his 
>     understanding of law, scripture and theology.  It seems 
>     to me, we might do well to follow such examples. 
> 
>     At any rate, the one lesson we should understand by now is that
>     we don't know what the soul is and therefore, we are currently
at
>     a loss on how to mesh it together with our scientific
investigation
>     of the mind.  Better that we learn to accept that we don't know
how 
>     to put it together, than to shout vociferously empty claims of
such 
>     knowledge and take the high and foolhardy road to thorough 
>     destruction.
> 
>     by Grace we proceed,
>     Wayne
>          
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