Re: [asa] Greetings from a new member

I just wanted to add one more very brief but lovely essay to this list,
which I just happened to read this evening: "On Obstinacy in Belief" by C.S.
Lewis (I found it in a collection of Lewis' essays which includes "The
World's Last Night." In about fifteen pages, Lewis answers the same
questions Dawkins keeps asking today about Christian belief. What people
like Dawkins miss is that faith is relational, not merely rational. A
snippet from the conclusion:

Our opponents, then, have a perfect right to dispute with us about the
grounds of our original assent [to the Christian faith]. But they must not
accuse us of sheer insanity if, after the assent has been given, our
adherence to it is no longer proportioned to every fluctuation of the
apparent evidence. They cannot of course be expected to know on what our
assurance feeds, and how it revives and is always rising from its ashes.
They cannot be expected to see how the *quality* of the object which we
think we are beginning to know by acquaintance drives us to the view that if
this were a delusion then we should have to say that the universe had
produced no real thing of comparable value and that all explanations of the
delusion seemed somehow less important than the thing explained. That is
knowledge we cannot comunicate. But they can see how the assent, of
necessity, moves us from the logic of speculative thought into what might
perhaps be called the logic of personal relations. What would, up till
then, have been variations simple of opinion become variations of conduct by
a person to a Person. Credere Deum esse turns into Credre in Deum. And
Deum here is this God, the increasingly knowable Lord.

On 4/8/07, David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Christine. I think lots of people whom you'll meet here can relate to
> your journey -- a journey that will not stop this side of heaven!
>
> If you're like me at all, what helps most in these times of doubt is not
> so much "answers" but "perspectives" -- ways of thinking about hard
> questions rather than pat responses. Here are a few books I've found
> helpful. These are just my quirky selections:
>
> *On doubt generally*: Alister McGrath, "Doubting: Growing Through the
> Uncertainties of Faith" -- doubt is not necessarily the enemy of faith! *(
> *http://www.amazon.com/Doubting-Growing-Through-Uncertainties-Faith/dp/0830833528/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-0130225-1466461?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176085946&sr=1-1
> )
>
> *On evolutionary psychology and the soul*: Nancey Murphy, "Bodies and
> Souls, or Spirited Bodies". (http://www.amazon.com/Bodies-Spirited-Current-Issues-Theology/dp/0521676762/ref=sr_1_1/002-0130225-1466461?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176085743&sr=8-1)
> Murphy argues for a "nonreductive physicalist" position. Not everyone will
> accept Murphy's position (we've debated it a bit here on this list before),
> but for me at least, it helps to know that there is such a position -- that
> materialism doesn't explain everything even if physicalism is true.
>
> In addition, on the more philosophical side, see Angus Menuge, "Agents
> Under Fire: Materialism and the Rationality of Science" (http://www.amazon.com/Agents-Under-Materialism-Rationality-Science/dp/0742534049/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-0130225-1466461?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176086558&sr=1-1)
> One caveat with this book: Menuge devotes a section to intelligent design
> theory based on irreducibly complexity, which might not be as convincing as
> the rest of the book. The philosophical survey of "strong" and "weak"
> determinism, however, is very helpful, IMHO.
>
> Also, check out Stephen Barr's "Modern Physics and Ancient Faith," as well
> as several essays Barr has published in First Things (
> http://www.firstthings.com) (http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Physics-Ancient-Faith-Stephen/dp/0268021988/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-0130225-1466461?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176086057&sr=1-1)
> Barr makes some interesting observations about quantum indeterminacy and the
> mind in relation to the traditional notion of the soul.
>
> And see Alister McGrath, "Dawkins' God: Genes, Memes and the Meaning of
> Life" (http://www.amazon.com/Dawkins-God-Genes-Memes-Meaning/dp/1405125381/ref=sr_1_1/002-0130225-1466461?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176086448&sr=8-1).
> While not strictly dealing with sociobiology, McGrath deals very effectively
> with a similar sort of materialist determinism represented by memetics.
>
> *On historicity of the Bible*, for me, the most important thing here is
> developing a carefully thought out theology of scripture along with an
> equally carefully thought out epistemology and a feel for hermeneutics.
> I've found Donald Bloesch's "Holy Scripture" extremely valuable in this
> regard ( http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Scripture-Inspiration-Interpretation-Foundations/dp/0830827528/ref=sr_1_1/002-0130225-1466461?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176086803&sr=1-1
> )
>
> In addition, concerning the New Testament, check out NT Wright's
> "Christian Origins" series, particularly "The Resurrection of the Son of
> God" (http://www.amazon.com/Resurrection-Son-Christian-Origins-Question/dp/0800626796/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-0130225-1466461?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176086180&sr=1-2)
> and "The New Testament and the People of God" ( http://www.amazon.com/Testament-People-Christian-Origins-Question/dp/0800626818/ref=sr_1_1/002-0130225-1466461?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176086274&sr=1-1
> ). Concerning the Old Testament, check out Peter Enns, "Inspiration and
> Incarnation: Evangelicals and the Problem of the Old Testament" (http://www.amazon.com/Inspiration-Incarnation-Evangelicals-Problem-Testament/dp/0801027306/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-0130225-1466461?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176086339&sr=1-1
> )
>
> In addition to all this, I'd suggest some reading in historical theology
> and Christian history. For me, it helps to know that there were deep
> thinkers in all eras of history who wrestled with similar doubts and
> challenges, and who developed nuanced and varied ways of approaching them.
> Pelikan's "The Christian Tradition" is a good survey ( http://www.amazon.com/Christian-Tradition-Development-Doctrine-Medieval/dp/0226653757/ref=sr_1_1/002-0130225-1466461?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176087227&sr=1-1
> ), and nothing beats reading directly from luminaries such as Augustine
> and Aquinas. Also, reading devotional / philosophical literature from great
> Christian minds, such as Blaise Pascal's Pensees, can be a beautifully
> enriching experience ( http://www.amazon.com/Pensees-Penguin-Classics-Blaise-Pascal/dp/0140446451/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-0130225-1466461?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176087402&sr=1-2
> )
>
> I'd make a few other suggestion to you: (1) stay away from the Internet
> Infidels and other such sites for a while, at least until you have a chance
> to digest some more serious Christian approaches to these questions.
> (2) Spend quality time in prayer. God isn't afraid of these questions --
> He's heard them all before. and (3) spend quality time in worship and in
> listening to great works of worship. Take in, for example, Rutter's Requiem
> ( http://www.amazon.com/Requiem-Magnificat-Rutter-Cambridge-Singers/dp/B00000DI06/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-0130225-1466461?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1176087601&sr=8-1
> ) and Arvo Part's Te Deum (http://www.amazon.com/Arvo-Part-Kaljuste-Estonian-Philharmonic/dp/B000024ZDF/ref=sr_1_9/002-0130225-1466461?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1176087645&sr=1-9
> ). It's amazing what someone like Arvo Part can do for the hurting soul.
>
> Blessings,
>
> David Opderbeck
>
> On 4/8/07, Christine Smith <christine_mb_smith@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone! I just recently joined ASA, and wanted
> > to take the time to introduce myself and my journey...
> >
> > I've always been a Christian (Lutheran), as has my
> > family for generations; my scientific background
> > consists of a minor in geography (emphasis in
> > meteorology and environmental issues), a B.S. in
> > geology (emphasis in geophysics/seismology) and an
> > M.S. in Environmental Management (with main interests
> > in environmental policy). Right now, I'm working as an
> > air quality planner for a government entity, although
> > previously I did work seismology work as an
> > undergraduate researcher, and I did professional
> > environmental site assessements while I was still
> > working on master's.
> >
> > I must confess that finding ASA seems to me to be an
> > answer to prayer. Just recently being out of school, I
> > decided to take some time to more thoroughly explore
> > my faith (not to say that previously I'd never thought
> > about it or studied it); in doing so, one of the books
> > I started reading was Lee Strobel's Case for a
> > Creator. Only into Chap. 3, I started to get the sense
> > that it didn't feel as rigorous as it should, so I
> > went on-line to find a critique of the book. I ended
> > up at infidel.org (I'm sure you all know that's an
> > atheist site), and from there, I started looking at
> > atheists' arguments more broadly. I had something of a
> > "crisis of faith" (read: complete meltdown) if you
> > will, and since then, I've been obsessively gobbling
> > down every (intelligent) book/website out there
> > discussing Christianity and Atheism. I've essentially
> > been living in the verses "I believe, help my
> > unbelief!" and "for we walk by faith, not by sight"
> > for the past 2 months as I've tried to come to a new
> > understanding of my faith in light of some of the
> > atheists' arguments. In the process, I've thoroughly
> > worn out my poor husband, to whom I then remarked -
> > "ya' know, scientists have such a unique mindset and
> > encounter such unique challenges to their faith,
> > wouldn't it be great if we had our own special
> > ministry/support group that helps to navigate both
> > science and religion in a rational, yet faithful
> > way?". God was listening to such prayers/needs I
> > think, and I not long after that, I found ASA. (Thank
> > you for being here!!)
> >
> > Anyway, what it all boils down to, is that my "crisis
> > of faith" essentially stemmed from two primary
> > challenges, to which I would be grateful to any
> > thoughts/resources you could share with me regarding
> > these:
> >
> > 1. I long ago made peace with the idea that God could
> > use evolution to form our physical bodies. What was
> > new to me, from the atheists' perspective, was the
> > idea that the intangible aspects of us, like feelings,
> > emotions, consciousness, etc. (which I had equated
> > with the God-given, eternal soul) could also arise
> > (ala emergent properties) naturally. Thus, I've
> > acquired a new-found interest in the fields of
> > pyschology, neurology, and computer science as I try
> > to reconceptualize the idea of a "soul".
> >
> > 2. The historicity of Biblical events also remains a
> > challenge. Although I've never taken the Bible
> > literally, or have assumed that it was 100% accurate
> > in terms of historical events, the atheists raise good
> > questions (they claim that temporary burials were
> > common back in Jesus's time, and that Jesus could have
> > been reburied without his disciples knowledge), and
> > even some Christians seem to take the Bible much more
> > figuratively than I do (i.e. Jesus was in the desert
> > for a long time, not necessarily 40 days, etc.); thus,
> > I'm not quite sure through what eyes I should read the
> > Bible at this point.
> >
> > Anyway, I have to get to church, but I look forward to
> > joining you all for discussions in the future. Happy
> > Easter!
> >
> > In Christ,
> > Christine
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
> > "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
> >
>
>

To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Fri Apr 13 22:40:40 2007