Re: [asa] Dawkins and PZ Myers and bigotry.

On 4/7/07, PvM <pvm.pandas@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Seek and though shall find something that matches your views about
> Dawkins and PZ Myers.
> What a waste of time and effort.
>
> And btw, faithhead seems to be a term reserved for those undetermined
> by reason. As a Christian I have found that my faith and my views of
> science are quite in agreement.
> Even if I am a faithhead, so what. Should I let others dictate how I
> view myself?
>
> PZ Myers' postings on science are pieces of art, as is much of
> Dawkins' work. Their viewpoints on atheism are as relevant to me as
> Dembski's musings on 'science'. With the understanding that Dembski is
> doing quite a bit to harm to science and faith alike. I could not care
> less about the damage Dawkins et al do to atheism

Yes, but they also do much damage to faith as well. I read a particularly
sad review on Amazon of The Selfish Gene, where the reviewer, who gave the
book five stars, wished that he had never read the book. He had been at a
time when he was on the verge of finding some sort of faith, but read
Dawkins's brilliantly clear explanation that showed him beyond doubt that
there was no God. This triggered around 10 years of depression.

Further more, if you read the reviews of TGD on Amazon you'll see many many
reviews where people have said that this book has been a revelation to them
- that it has improved their confused lives no end because it has enabled
them to become atheists. There is no question that this book is achieving
its aim of turning people who had previously sat on the fence into atheists.

It's good to hear though that some on this group who have outspoken
> against Dawkins are finally reading his materials.

I don't know who you mean here when you say "are finally", but for your
information, I read The Selfish Gene, The Blind Watchmaker and River out of
Eden a long time ago. I also watched Dawkins's series of Royal Institution
Lectures "Growing up in the Universe" when it was first broadcast on the
BBC. I formed my own opinion, without reading what other Christians had got
to say, that Dawkins was on a personal crusade against religion - and that
his tone is often strident, sarcastic and petulant. As far as an opinion of
Dawkins is concerned - he is a brilliant, if occasionally somewhat
patronising, writer. He explains the science extremely well, and if he
stuck to the role of popularising and explaining science without pushing his
own personal philosophical agenda, then I wouldn't have any problem with
him; indeed I would be an admirer.

I am for instance quite persuaded that much of the nonsense said in
> name of Christianity (Creationism, YEC especially and Intelligent
> Design) needs to be rejected in name of science and Christianity.

I agree with you. But I wonder how you would advocate dealing with the
three people in the home-group that I lead with my wife, who are sympathetic
to YEC-ism? I take it that the PZ Myers recommendation is off the table?
It was one of the YEC people who asked me to do a presentation on the
different views on it. I prepared a Powerpoint presentation which gave
details of what evolution is; what Young Earth Creationism and Intelligent
Design are, and what Theistic Evolution is. I decided the best solution was
to tread carefully, as it would be poor leadership to diss the opinions of
others in the group. It was inevitable that my own views came out to the
extent that I described "creation science" as being largely wishful
thinking.

Now Dawkins, as an atheist would wish to have no dialogue with these
"clowns" (see the Time magazine debate with Francis Collins). But I can't
do that as a Christian. These are people who genuinely feel that evolution
undermines faith. On of them, who is a surgeon doing PhD research into
genetics, could not accept that chimpanzees are our cousins. I can't go
telling him he's stupid to believe that, can I? Nor am I going to make much
progress by saying that I utterly reject this nonsense of ID and
Creationism. Can you not see that such language simply antagonises people?
And that's my problem with Dawkins as well.

Iain

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Received on Sat Apr 7 05:34:22 2007