Re: [asa] dawkins and collins on "Fresh Air" interview program

Also wrote on my own blog: http://tgdarkly.com/blog/?p=535

On 4/3/07, David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am so angry about this that my hands are shaking. I tried my best,
> however, to say something reasonable on Dembski's site. Here is what I
> posted there. Let's see if they put me in the moderation bin for be
> disagreeable again.
>
> Quoting my comment on Uncommon Descent:
>
> I am the "David" to which Ted Davis refers and whose earlier comments Ted
> "echoes" in the discussion thread from the ASA email list which Dr. Dembski
> has referenced. The context of that thread was a discussion of Richard
> Dawkins' recent "Fresh Air" interview.
>
> The person to whom Ted is directly responding in that discussion, Pim van
> Meurs (of Panda's Thumb), was suggesting that Dawkins' main target is ID
> rather than religion generally. Pim seemed to be defending Dawkins as a
> champion of Science. I reacted strongly to that, and others jumped into the
> fray, including Ted.
>
> The suggestion that Ted's post *"is written to Pim van Meurs, as a mentor
> would write to his disciple"* is patently absurd, bordering perhaps on
> defamatory. If you read through the whole thread, and indeed if you were to
> participate regularly on the ASA list, you would immediately see that
> nothing could be further from the truth. Ted *never* hesitates to call
> out over-the-top nonesense like a defense of Richard Dawkins as a reasonable
> chap who is just concerned about ID.
>
> Indeed, in my many online conversations with Ted, I've come to appreciate
> deeply his somewhat moderating stance between TE and ID. It is true that
> Ted doesn't hesitate to criticize what he sees as the flaws in the "strong"
> ID program. But at the same time, he often defends the basic notion of
> design from excessive criticism by TE's, and the historical context he is
> able to provide to these discussions invariably is invaluable.
>
> Above all, Ted is a gentleman as well as a scholar. From what I've seen
> of Ted's writing and of his leadership in the ASA, he has refused to allow
> the politics of ID to overwhelm careful scholarship and calm, reasoned
> discussion.
>
> It is a shame that we can't say the same for everyone involved in this
> discussion, particularly for those who publicly identify themselves as
> followers of Jesus. Personally, I used to be much more sympathetic to ID
> than I am now. One of the main reasons for my increased skepticism about ID
> is that nasty, strident, politicized tone of many ID leaders -- as
> exemplified by this unfair attack on a fellow Christian scholar. You may
> think you are winning a battle here and there, but you will lose the war if
> you keep going down this track. The shame is that it isn't really your war
> to fight, and the tools you're using to fight it are not those of the
> Kingdom all of us Christian scholars are supposed to represent.
>
> I am a law professor, a Christian scholar along with Ted and Dr. Dembski,
> though not possessed of anywhere near their achievements, influence or
> stature. We who are called to serve the Church with our teaching and
> scholarship, perhaps more than anyone else, ought to model patient, careful,
> deep and reasonable discourse. We together name Jesus as Lord and agree
> that all Truth is God's Truth. Our bond in those facts should transcend
> this sort of petty sniping.
>
> (And now, let's see with what love and grace everyone here treats me for
> daring to defend my friend Ted Davis).
>
>
>
> On 4/3/07, Ted Davis <TDavis@messiah.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Bill Dembski writes about my post to Pim:
> >
> > "As a mentor would write to his disciple."
> >
> > As a mentor to his disciple? I'm not sure who is laughing harder
> > here--Pim, or me. Or, perhaps Bill, since this might be a joke on his
> > part.
> > Anyone who has followed my exchanges with Pim on various topics, would
> > not
> > be likely to conclude that this is the nature of our relationship. How
> > many
> > times have we actually agreed here, Pim? Maybe half a dozen in several
> > years? Bill probably doesn't follow our conversations very closely, and
> > I
> > don't know whether he picked this up from someone else; perhaps Pim
> > posted
> > my comments on PT, as he sometimes does without my knowledge.
> >
> > As for my "consistently miss[ing] the mark concerning ID," I am hardly
> > in
> > any position to suggest that I know more about ID than Bill does--that
> > would
> > be a joke even better than his. I hear from friends, however, that some
> > ID
> > advocates thought that some of my comments on the Dover trial were not
> > entirely off the mark. Other friends on the other side had similar
> > sentiments, however--so I guess I was completely wrong, after all.
> >
> > My best, Bill,
> >
> > Ted
> >
> >
>

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Received on Tue Apr 3 09:54:38 2007