RE: [asa] Does ASA believe in Adam and Eve?

Hi Dave:

The main thesis of de la Peyrere's book, of course, is that a correct
reading of Romans 5:12-14 demanded that there had to be men before Adam
and thus the name of his book. I think his exegesis has merit, but I
can throw a lot more into the pot to substantiate that idea than he
could. His point is one more log on the fire for me, whereas for him
that's about all he had. Though I believe he interpreted from his heart
not trying to force Scripture to say what he already thought Certainly
his book brought him no acclaim, only consequences.

You also wrote:

Now farmer=baker, with fisherman recreational. Called to paradise (or
wherever) to answer for his damage to the Southwind rather than placed
in the Garden before falling is so clearly parallel. Now would you like
to show that he is the ancestor of the kings who match the patriarchs?

Well, both Adam and Adapa were "created." Does that count for anything?
Archibald Sayce said "Adapa" should have been translated "Adamu," and
Adamu was a popular name among Akkadians. When Akkadian language
becomes Hebrew, the "u" is dropped whereby Adamu becomes simply "Adam."
Thus from simply a linguistic point of view, Adapa may be Adam.

Breaking the wing of the south wind shows me he had power. Being called
to heaven before the father god to account for bad behavior means he had
importance - yet he was not a god or king. He is the only man I can
find in Akkadian lore who was neither god nor king. Yet he was so
significant legends about him were recorded in four languages and
tablets found as far south as Egypt. He is called Atrahasis - exceeding
wise. He is described as "blameless, "clean of hands," anointer,"
"observer of laws." Adam was cut off from the tree of life thus losing
out on eternal life and Adapa refuses food and water that would have
given him eternal life. There is even an element of the results of the
fall:

what ill he has brought upon mankind,

                        [And] the disease that he brought upon the
bodies of men ...

Personally, I think they are the same guy. But a legend likely contains
a bit of puffery not found in Genesis.

Genesis 5 tells me Adam is ancestral to all the patriarchs. But Genesis
is about a specific bloodline whether they were kings or not, whereas
the Sumerian king list is a line of successive kings regardless of who
begot who. The only sure match is Ziusudra equals Noah. Even Josephus
in quoting Berossus changes Xisuthros (Greek for Ziusudra) to "Noah."
Now Lamech was father to Noah and Sukurlam was father to Ziusudra.
Sukurlam describes Ziusudra as "son of Ubartutu" which as you know can
also mean "grandson." Likely Ubartutu is Methuselah as all three
pre-flood kings ruled in the same city - Shuruppak.

Dick Fischer

Dick Fischer, Genesis Proclaimed Association

Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History

 <http://www.genesisproclaimed.org> www.genesisproclaimed.org

-----Original Message-----
From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. [mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 2:08 PM
To: dickfischer@verizon.net
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] Does ASA believe in Adam and Eve?

I'm guessing that de la Peyrere did not mention any place but Palestine
because he was obsessed with the Jews. He wanted to simplify
Christianity so that the Jews would accept it. He read Scripture to say
what he wanted it to say.

No, water on Mars doesn't count, unless you've discovered that Mars is
part of a solid layer with sluice gates.

Now farmer=baker, with fisherman recreational. Called to paradise (or
wherever) to answer for his damage to the Southwind rather than placed
in the Garden before falling is so clearly parallel. Now would you like
to show that he is the ancestor of the kings who match the patriarchs?

Dave

On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 11:48:11 -0400 "Dick Fischer"
<dickfischer@verizon.net> writes:

Hi Dave, you wrote:

Since Isaac de la Peyrere was thoroughly familiar with the Bible, he
must have known about Mesopotamia. He would not have any knowledge of
the pagan myths from the area, for their discovery and decipherment came
much later. But the geography is noted in a number of works that were
known, whether from pagan Greek and Roman sources, or later Christian
sources. There were sees throughout the ancient Near East.

I read his entire book in the Library of Congress on film. I saw
nothing to indicate he had any awareness of the part Mesopotamia played
in early Genesis. Still the absence of evidence is not the evidence of
absence.

I understand that Genesis 1 messes up the simplicity of your approach,
for it cannot be honestly manipulated to avoid ridiculous consequences.
I recall the notion of an icy canopy that Glenn destroyed, and the
attempt to make the firmament simultaneously into space and atmosphere.
Water above the sun is a major problem. You try to get out of the
problem by claiming that Mesopotamian sources were not of one piece.

Genesis 1 appears to come from another source. I'm certainly not the
first to point that out. And hey, they found water on Mars! Does that
count?

But the king lists which have a few individuals reigning for something
between 186,000 and 456.000 years, depending on which list is consulted,
suggest a lack of history. Sounds like one piece to me. However,
Adama-Adapu being a fisherman rather than a farmer is interesting.

Sumerian years aren't easily reconcilable with Hebrew years. Still the
Sumerian king lists become more like Genesis 5 before "the flood swept
thereover." Compare Enmenduranki - Ubartutu - Sukurlam and Ziusudra
with Enoch - Methuselah - Lamech and Noah. From other sources we can
confirm a father and son relationship for the last three on the king
list which strengthens the case that at least the last three are the
same persons.

Actually, Adapa was a baker. "With the bakers of Eridu he does the
baking." Remember in Genesis it says "in the sweat of your face you
will eat bread." Although Adapa was in a fishing accident according to
the legend, that highlights his location at Eridu beside the Persian
Gulf. When Eridu was excavated in addition to a copious amount of fish
bones they found a small altar at the bottom on virgin soil. It's the
oldest altar in Mesopotamia dated to the 5th millennium. There's a
picture of it in a 1948 issue of The Illustrated London News and in my
book. I think there is a distinct possibility Adam himself may have
built the altar and worshipped there.

Dick Fischer

Dick Fischer, Genesis Proclaimed Association

Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History

 <http://www.genesisproclaimed.org> www.genesisproclaimed.org

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Received on Sat Mar 31 16:42:45 2007