Re: [asa] Does ASA believe in Adam and Eve?

----- Original Message -----
From: <drsyme@cablespeed.com>
To: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [asa] Does ASA believe in Adam and Eve?

"Where does Genesis mention scoffers before the flood?"

Genesis 6:5 "The Lord saw how great man's wickedness on
the earth had become, and that every inclination of the
thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time."

[GLM Of course. But there's no mention of "scoffers." I'm not trying to
be picky but I thought your point was that there was a verbal link.]

"Otherwise you're left with the idea that there are some
human beings who aren't affected by the whole thing- and
idea inconsistent with, among other things, the concept of
a general judgment."

The destruction of the heavens and earth is a destruction
of the old covenant. But, after this the new covenant is
available to all, "..Jew or Greek, Slave or Free."

[GLM I see no justification for your 1st sentence in connection with II
Peter 3, though end of the world language may have that sense in other
texts. The new covenant is available to all now & was when II Peter was
written - it wasn't something people had to wait patiently for.]

"II Peter doesn't say that the scoffers mentioned in Ch 3
will experience the judgment he speaks of in their
lifetimes."

It doesn't? How can you say that? 2 Peter 3:3 "First of
all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers
will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires."
 How long is the last days supposed to last, 2000 years?
  If the scoffers were present in the apostolic age, then
that is when the last days occurred.

[GLM In this sense of "the last days," they have indeed lasted 2000 (or at
least 1973) years & the clock is still ticking. But you're trying to make a
chain of inferences do the work of a statement, & a faulty chain at that.
II Peter is arguing that Christians shouldn't be surprised at the apparent
delay of the parousia (including judgment on the scoffers), & have to trust
that it will come in spite of appearances & be patient. It goes against the
whole thrust of his argument to make Hal Lindsey type claims that it
certainly will be very soon. The whole problem that he's dealing with is
that Christians have believed that & it hasn't happened.]

"Again, the scoffers of Jude/II Pet.2 shouldn't
automatically be identified with those of II Pet.3"

  If Jude is a source for 2 Peter, then the text in Jude
18: "They said to you, "In the last times there will be
scoffers who will follow their won ungodly desires."" is
nearly identical to 2 Peter 3:3 "First of all, you must
understand that in the last days scoffers will come,
scoffing and following their own evil desires,..." I
don't see how the scoffers in Jude are different than the
scoffers in 2 Peter 3.

[GLM Yes, That's some of the language that II Peter borrows. But the
scoffers in Jude are not scoffing against the promise of Christ's return.
The onmly mention of God (not, explicitly, Christ) coming is the passage
from Enoch in Jude 14, & that's cited to show that the ungodly had been
prophesied, not in response to any claims by scoffers that Christ wouldn't
return.]

Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/

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Received on Fri Mar 30 06:13:38 2007