Re: [asa] The Lost Tomb of Jesus

Here are Darrell Bock's initial comments, which seem very helpful:
http://dev.bible.org/bock/node/106

This, in particular, seems quite strong:

Third, we have to accept that as they scrambled to steal the body and yet
preach an empty tomb and resurrection when they actually knew that Jesus was
not raised. They had to SECRETLY buy the tomb space from someone, prepare
an ossuary over a year's period and then choose to adorn the ossuary of
Jesus with graffiti-like script to name their dead hero. Surely if they had
a year to prepare honoring Jesus, they would have adorned his ossuary with
more than a mere graffiti like description. Not to mention that some of the
family died for this belief, when they really knew Jesus had not left the
tomb empty. This scenario seems quite implausible.

It would seem quite absurd for the first Christians to perpetuate, on pain
of persecution and death, a false resurrection story, while at the same time
housing Jesus' body in a family tomb in an ossuary with his name emblazoned
on it -- and stranger still to leave the ossuary in situ with all the other
family ossuaries where it easily could have been discovered by anyone.

Note also in Bock's comments that several of the key experts associated with
the film reject the hypothesis that this is really Jesus' burial place:

Seventh, if one pays close attention to the special one will see that when
the subject of the connection is raised with the most well known of these
experts, they all say the connection is NOT credible because the names are
so common. These experts have known about this locale for decades. NONE of
the most well known experts are actually cited as embracing the claim of the
special. Surely they asked them this question about a specific connection,
did they not? In other words, the silence on such a lack of endorsements for
the figures brought in to corroborate certain details is deafening.

This sounds reminiscent of the D. James Kennedy documentary we all went on
about earlier this year in which it was made to appear that Francis Collins
supported ID.

Bock makes a number of other compelling arguments concerning the presence of
the name "Matthew" on one of the ossuaries and concerning the name
Mariamne.

On 2/26/07, drsyme@cablespeed.com <drsyme@cablespeed.com> wrote:

> All I know about this is from the news conference the film
> makers just gave, (Cameron et al.) And they were very
> impressive. They were very believable, and persuading.
> They answered all of the reporters questions who
> presented many of these arguments.
>
> It appears they have a lot of scientific evidence to back
> them up. And they readily admit where assumptions are
> made. They claim that the documentary is balanced and
> presents arguments on both sides, but in the end concludes
> that this is Jesus's tomb among other things.
>
> Skeptics are going to be skeptics. But, the Christian
> community, especially the scientifically mided Christian
> community, is going to have to be familiar with the ideas
> and evidence in this film, and is going to either have to
> have substantial evidence proving it is not true, or
> making it seem very unlikely. Or, there is going to have
> to be some theological work done to deal with this
> evidence.
>
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 10:45:04 -0700
> "Rich Blinne" <rich.blinne@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 2/26/07, drsyme@cablespeed.com
> ><drsyme@cablespeed.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> None of us may really be able to say anything
> >>intelligent
> >> about this until March 4, when the documentary premiers
> >>on
> >> the Discovery Channel.
> >>
> >> Nevertheless, we all need to be aware of this.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://newsblaze.com/story/20070225195821howa.nb/newsblaze/NEWSWIRE/NewsBlaze-Wire.html
> >>
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu
> >>with
> >> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the
> >>message.
> >>
> >
> >>From here:
> >
> http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/02/25/tomb_arc.html?category=archaeology&guid=20070225073000&dcitc=w19-502-ak-0000
> >
> >
> >> Robert Genna, director of the Suffolk County Crime
> >>Laboratory in New York,
> >> analyzed both the patina taken from the Talpiot Tomb and
> >>chemical residue
> >> obtained from the "James" ossuary, which was also found
> >>around 1980, but
> >> subsequently disappeared and resurfaced in the
> >>antiquities market. Although
> >> controversy surrounds this burial box, Genna found that
> >>the two patinas
> >> matched.
> >>
> >
> > What isn't mentioned here was the Israeili Antiquities
> >Association in 2003
> > found the chemicals in the patina in the James Ossuary
> >to correspond to a
> > modern-day forgery. So, if the patinas match then it is
> >likely that the
> > inscriptions are forged here also. It's the
> >inscriptions that give force to
> > the DNA analysis because it otherwise would be just an
> >ordinary group of
> > middle-class 1st centuries ossuaries where some but not
> >all of the bones are
> > related.
> >
> > Note also the following AP story:
> > http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/living/health/16787620.htm
> >
> > Scholars, clergy slam Jesus documentary MARSHALL
> >THOMPSON Associated Press
> >
> > *JERUSALEM - *Archaeologists and clergymen in the Holy
> >Land derided claims
> > in a new documentary produced by the Oscar-winning
> >director James Cameron
> > that contradict major Christian tenets. "The Lost Tomb
> >of Christ," which the
> > Discovery Channel will run on March 4, argues that 10
> >ancient ossuaries -
> > small caskets used to store bones - discovered in a
> >suburb of Jerusalem in
> > 1980 may have contained the bones of Jesus and his
> >family, according to a
> > press release issued by the Discovery Channel.
> >
> > One of the caskets even bears the title, "Judah, son of
> >Jesus," hinting that
> > Jesus may have had a son. And the very fact that Jesus
> >had an ossuary would
> > contradict the Christian belief that he was resurrected
> >and ascended to
> > heaven.
> >
> > Most Christians believe Jesus' body spent three days at
> >the site of the
> > Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem's Old City.
> >The burial site
> > identified in Cameron's documentary is in a southern
> >Jerusalem neighborhood
> > nowhere near the church.
> >
> > In 1996, when the BBC aired a short documentary on the
> >same subject,
> > archaeologists challenged the claims. Amos Kloner, the
> >first archaeologist
> > to examine the site, said the idea fails to hold up by
> >archaeological
> > standards but makes for profitable television.
> >
> > "They just want to get money for it," Kloner said.
> >
> > The claims have raised the ire of Christian leaders in
> >the Holy Land.
> >
> > "The historical, religious and archaeological evidence
> >show that the place
> > where Christ was buried is the Church of the
> >Resurrection," said Attallah
> > Hana, a Greek Orthodox clergyman in Jerusalem. The
> >documentary, he said,
> > "contradicts the religious principles and the historic
> >and spiritual
> > principles that we hold tightly to."
> >
> > Stephen Pfann, a biblical scholar at the University of
> >the Holy Land in
> > Jerusalem who was interviewed in the documentary, said
> >the film's hypothesis
> > holds little weight.
> >
> > "I don't think that Christians are going to buy into
> >this," Pfann said. "But
> > skeptics, in general, would like to see something that
> >pokes holes into the
> > story that so many people hold dear."
> >
> > "How possible is it?" Pfann said. "On a scale of one
> >through 10 - 10 being
> > completely possible - it's probably a one, maybe a one
> >and a half."
> >
> > Pfann is even unsure that the name "Jesus" on the
> >caskets was read
> > correctly. He thinks it's more likely the name "Hanun."
> >
> > Kloner also said the filmmakers' assertions are false.
> >
> > "It was an ordinary middle-class Jerusalem burial cave,"
> >Kloner said. "The
> > names on the caskets are the most common names found
> >among Jews at the
> > time."
> >
> > Archaeologists also balk at the filmmaker's claim that
> >the James Ossuary -
> > the center of a famous antiquities fraud in Israel -
> >might have originated
> > from the same cave. In 2005, Israel charged five
> >suspects with forgery in
> > connection with the infamous bone box.
> >
> > "I don't think the James Ossuary came from the same
> >cave," said Dan Bahat,
> > an archaeologist at Bar-Ilan University. "If it were
> >found there, the man
> > who made the forgery would have taken something better.
> >He would have taken
> > Jesus."
> >
> > Although the documentary makers claim to have found the
> >tomb of Jesus, the
> > British Broadcasting Corporation beat them to the punch
> >by 11 years.
> >
> > Osnat Goaz, a spokeswoman for the Israeli government
> >agency responsible for
> > archaeology, declined to comment before the documentary
> >was aired.
>
>
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Received on Mon Feb 26 14:02:03 2007