Re: [asa] Mark 10:6 -- "beginning of creation"

I sent this earlier, but it didn't make it to the list. I hope that I have
fixed the problem, and so I am resending it.

On Fri, 19 Jan 2007, gordon brown wrote:

> In Mark 10:6 and II Peter 3:4 the reference has to be to when the creation
> was complete, not to when it began.
>
> I wonder about the meaning of creation in these passages. The Greek word is
> ktisis, and it is commonly translated as creation or creature. In English we
> use the word creation to denote either (1) the physical world we see around
> us or (2) the process of creation. I don't know of any place in the NT where
> ktisis obviously means (2). Possibly it always means (1), i.e. the completed
> product. See Mark 13:19, where the same phrase "beginning of creation" occurs
> and the modifying phrase "which God created" obviously means that creation
> refers to the completed product.
>
> Gordon Brown
> Department of Mathematics
> University of Colorado
> Boulder, CO 80309-0395
>
>
> On Fri, 19 Jan 2007, David Opderbeck wrote:
>
>> Here is one interesting article I found in an RTB newsletter that talks
>> about the grammar and context (some of you will have to ignore the ID stuff
>> that's also in there :-) ):
>> http://www.reasons.org/chapters/seattle/newsletters/200406/200406.pdf
>>
>> George's response seems like the most devastating. If the "beginning of
>> creation" is what it simply and literally means in English, what's the
>> difference if Adam and Eve came on day 6 or on year 4 billion? Either way,
>> Jesus would be misrepresenting the facts.
>>
>>
>> On 1/19/07, Robert Schneider <rjschn39@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree with Michael. The common hermeneutic of YECs is eisegesis, not
>>> exegesis. They commonly read into a verse what they want to find there
>>> instead of reading out of a verse what is there.
>>>
>>> If you read the comment by Hugh Anderson in the New Century Bible
>>> Commentary on Mark 10:6-9 (p. 242-243), he makes it clear that this whole
>>> passage is about marriage and divorce. Jesus' "appeal is how things *may
>>> be* from the human point of view with respect to the Law [regarding
>>> divorce] to how things *are* in the order of God's creation." Anderson
>>> also refers to the *Damascus Document* of the Qumran community which uses
>>> Gen. 1:27 to argue for monogamy (over against polygamy).
>>>
>>> As Michael stated, Mark 10:6ff has absolutely nothing to say about the
>>> "creation week.". It is sad to see this kind of YEC interpretation that
>>> defies reason and logic, ignores context, and twists the meaning of the
>>> passage to serve an ideological end. This issue is on my mind right now
>>> because I am reading Henry Morris on Scripture; it's a real test of my
>>> equinimity.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Michael Roberts <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk>
>>> *To:* David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com> ; asa@calvin.edu
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 19, 2007 2:33 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [asa] Mark 10:6 -- "beginning of creation"
>>>
>>>
>>> It is difficult to even write a good article on this exegesis of Mk 10.6as
>>> the verse says nothing about the creation week hence there is nothing to
>>> say!
>>>
>>> It is simply misuse of scripture .
>>>
>>> End of argument
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com>
>>> *To:* asa@calvin.edu
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 19, 2007 2:10 AM
>>> *Subject:* [asa] Mark 10:6 -- "beginning of creation"
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone know of a good article / source that discusses the exegesis of
>>> Mark 10:6, to reply to the YEC claim that Jesus must be affirming a
>>> one-week
>>> creation?
>>>
>>> --
>>> David W. Opderbeck
>>> Web: http://www.davidopderbeck.com
>>> Blog: http://www.davidopderbeck.com/throughaglass.html
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> David W. Opderbeck
>> Web: http://www.davidopderbeck.com
>> Blog: http://www.davidopderbeck.com/throughaglass.html
>> MySpace (Music): http://www.myspace.com/davidbecke
>>
>

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Received on Sat Jan 20 16:43:27 2007