Re: [asa] Re: Peacocke's theology and the meaning of "Christian"

I'm glad that Michael put the words attributed to Paul Nelson back up so he can be reminded of them. They were as I recalled them, and I stand by what I said, and second Michael's criticism. So, Dr. Nelson, are you implying, in giving Peacocke's statement about rethinking Christian theology in the light of scientific discoveries, that what he is doing no longer makes him a Christian? It is not possible for someone to be "heterodox" in your view and still be a Christian? Since I think that Ken Ham's conviction that Genesis, i.e., his YEC interpretation of it, is the foundation of Christianity is heresy, since the foundation is Jesus Christ, should I no longer think that Ham is a Christian? Should I dismiss him as a Christian because he promotes this false belief? (I don't, though I wish he wouldn't.)

Bob Schneider
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Michael Roberts
  To: Paul Nelson ; asa@calvin.edu
  Cc: nelsonpa@alumni.uchicago.edu ; rjschn39@bellsouth.net
  Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 12:21 PM
  Subject: [asa] Re: Peacocke's theology and the meaning of "Christian"

  I did not argue that you misrepresented AP's theology but referred to your statement about AP sent to this list on 26 May 2006; which KM said came from a digital recording of the meeting.

  Nelson: Ah, I would like to begin by actually responding to this slide from
  Jim. Ah, it's true that of these scientists named here, ah, are theists I
  think, Arthur Peacock I'm not sure would call himself a Christian, he has a
  rather heterodox theology, but they are all theists of one strip or another.

  Here's the problem though. All of them accept a philosophy of science that
  excludes intelligent causation by definition. Ah, for instance, ah, Keith
  Miller and I served on a panel that the, ah, American Scientific Affiliation
  assembled a few years ago to write a statement on creation, with a variety
  of viewpoints. Keith was defending theistic evolution I was arguing for
  intelligent design

  I presume Paul accepts this as an accurate transcript - otherwise he should have corrected it before.

  Paul said of AP "Arthur Peacock I'm not sure would call himself a Christian, he has a
  rather heterodox theology,"

  The first part of the statement is totally and utterly false. In every contact I had with him it was clear that he would call himself a Christian and did so on many an occasion. I had no grounds whatever to challenge his love of Christ nor his desire to proclaim the Christian faith, hence I get angry at any who does. I find Paul's statement offensive in the extreme and totally bigoted.

  I wish Arthur were alive to say what he thinks I would have said to the second part! I am sure he would have said that I am far too biblicist and not critical enough and that by my standards he is heterodox, and he would be right! It basically came out in some of the friendly arguments we had.

  So in answer to your question, is it necessary to believe in the bodily resurrection, I would answer NO but it is desirable to do so as to reject it ultimately destroys our faith.

  To conclude I recognise Arthur as a fellow Christian whose theology I found lacking.

  I have less of a problem with liberals like Arthur than some evangelicals who are so quick to deny or rubbish the faith of others. I don't have space to give examples if only from those who accept the non-traditional doctrine of a young earth.

  Michael

  ----- Original Message -----
    From: Paul Nelson
    To: asa@calvin.edu
    Cc: nelsonpa@alumni.uchicago.edu ; rjschn39@bellsouth.net ; michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk
    Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 4:05 PM
    Subject: Peacocke's theology and the meaning of "Christian"

    Michael Roberts and Robert Schneider argue

    that I misrepresented the theology of Arthur Peacocke,

    by saying that I was unsure if Peacocke would

    call himself a Christian. Of course, this depends

    on how "Christian" is defined.

    So I'll ask the ASA list: Must a Christian affirm

    the bodily resurrection of Jesus, as stated (for

    instance) in the ancient creeds of the church,

    e.g., the Apostles' Creed?

    Those unfamiliar with Peacocke's theology should

    consult this lecture:

    http://www.ctinquiry.org/publications/reflections_volume_3/peacocke.htm

    See in particular paragraphs V, VI, and VII

    under the heading "Theology Today and

    Tomorrow."

    Paul Nelson

    Adjunct Professor

    MA Program in Science & Theology

    Biola University

    www.biola.edu/scienceandreligion/

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Received on Sat Jan 13 23:16:13 2007