RE: (Fwd) [asa] Cows, diet, and warming

I figured with four replies I better put this together in one post, so as
not to use up my daily allowance. Individual replies below. Thanks.

I apologize if I am not being detailed enough, or if the things I have
stated in the past are not remembered by others. I am not against
legislation, but I leave that to the legislators. What I am trying to say
is that WE as Christians must pass on our Christian understanding of
stewardship, or in the case of murder, our understanding of Agape.

To quote myself in a previous post on this thread, "When sufficient numbers
of people get together and choose to push the leaders in to taking a
position which is of benefit to the people and not the corporations they
have done exactly as I have stated. Legislating when it is the will of the
majority is the same as the majority using their own money to force the same
result."

I did not say legislation was wrong, I said that legislation is not as
effective as education. Educating the masses will lead to generational
changes. They take longer, however they also last longer. Legislation
changes rapidly and therefore the climate towards certain offenses can
change just as quickly. Does anyone here think that crime is better to be
legislated than taught? Should we simply rely on the laws to keep our kids
from using drugs? Should we not teach them first? Then let the laws work
only for those unwilling to learn what is best. Laws should apply to a few
(those unwilling people). When laws (criminal) begin to apply to all, it
will appear to be oppressive even if it's not. In other words when a
society has reach a level were a large majority are breaking a certain law,
we cannot simply make tougher laws. That again is a short term solution.
Education is the long term solution. If people are educated not just about
the problem with the environment but are also educated to make a difference
within their own lives, then even those who are unwilling (many of the
corporations and some countries) will have to bend to the will of the
people. While it is all fine and dandy to sit around debating what should
be done, how many of you have done something about it within your own areas
of control. Each of us can find an area or areas in which we can cut back
on energy consumption, which is truly what this is all about. We may think
about it more directly, like driving less or using less electricity, but
then we end up purchasing things which are not important (wants). If we all
stuck to our needs alone, then the overall consumption of consumer goods
will go down. The need for the energy used to manufacture and delivery the
goods would go down. This is only an example. But rather than sitting
around debating about my take on the matter, spend some time debating where
each of you can cut back on energy. Then when the log is out of your eyes,
you might be able to use the same technique to show others how to do the
same.

Sorry if this sounds like I'm judging. It is not meant that way. But it is
hard to see how telling people there is a problem, when one does not do what
they can to help the situation, helps anything.

May the Lord Bless each of us and give us strength and guidance in passing
on our Christian Love and Stewardship.

PS: Slavery ended only because there was enough political and economic
support from INDIVIDUALS. The slavery issue was discussed extensively by
our founders yet the best they could do was get blacks counted as a partial
human. There was not enough people in support of abolition. Once the
number of people against it rose well above the majority (at least in the
north) then it was politically and economically feasible to push the
military solution (if one calls this legislative). Individuals are also the
ones that made the underground railroad possible long before the government
got off their seats. But hey I suppose it would have been better those
individuals to just wait for the government to take care of it.

George, I realize you may not know, but my children are African-American.
Just to let you know, I am the last person you will ever find in favor of
slavery. Then again you may have mentioned for that reason. I have
discussed the slave issue before. Good memory.

Pim, not sure how laws being socialist leads our faith to be socialist. Are
you saying that our faith is founded on legistlation? I realize I am not
going to convince you. Luckily I'm not trying to. I would appreciate it
though if when you use the " or ' as if you were quoting, please do so
exactingly. That I believe is the acceptable norm. Thanks.

Rob, nice and I totally agree.

Ken, I didn't say governments cannot do anything good, but name one that's
not corrupt. We as a people constantly complain that our governments aren't
doing something they should, like the environment. We complain when they do
things they shouldn't. Yet we as a people continue to believe that somehow
it must work. How many times will someone do the same for a vehicle that is
constantly having repeated problems before they call it a lemon?
Governments BTW aren't the problem. It's the people. Not just the ones in
government but those who do nothing to make changes within their own homes
and communities. If we (democracy people) are a government by the people,
of the people and for the people, then why are we arguing that people cannot
make a change? Something twisted with the idea that the government is
somehow separate from the people. Have we as a society gotten to a place
where our government is a entity unto itself? For what it's worth, the
Interstate system was designed and built for the military. Like the
internet. It was only an after-thought to let civilians use it. That way
the system built for the military would no longer have to be funded out of
military budgets. In fact if one calculates the total expenditures of many
of our systems today that were made for te military, and add that to the
military budget, one would find that we spend nearly 3/4 of our money on the
military. The majority of our civilian economy relies upon these military
systems.

Don Perrett
In Christ

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of PvM
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 12:55 PM
To: donperrett@theology-perspectives.net
Cc: Kenneth Piers; ASA Discussions
Subject: Re: (Fwd) [asa] Cows, diet, and warming

This is a somewhat silly argument. Sure, people do get killed even though
there are laws. Laws are not made to stop all occurrences but rather to
place a cost on behavior which is argued to reduce the occurrence of said
behavior.
Being responsible and teaching responsibility are but one of the many
aspects needed. But a society is not guided by example alone and needs by
necessity laws and regulations. As Christians we are very well aware of such
laws and regulations that guide or should guide our behaviors. Perhaps Don
is right, laws may be socialist which leads to the inevitable conclusion
that our faith is socialist in nature as well.

Legislation and socialism are hardly equivalent, although there may be a
significant overlap in some cases. First of all, as Christians we may find
much similarity in the concept of socialism and our own faith. Secondly, it
seems unclear to me that legislating behavior is socialist in nature. It is
but one of many tools to control behavior to reduce unfortunate and
detrimental effects.
In-action is as much a way of handling a particular situation as taking
action, it is a choice with consequence.

So let's try to avoid poor strawmen like 'if laws against murder are meant
to reduce murder how come that murder still happens'...
If that's the argument then we should all be in favor of anarchism...
Should we not? Or is that also illogical a conclusion?

On 1/12/07, Don Perrett <donperrett@theology-perspectives.net> wrote:
> As I have stated repeatedly, I do not disagree with Global Warming.
> There are some who might, but not I.
>
> My disagreement is with how the issue is handled. Some people are
> socialist in nature and think that legislation is needed. Like making
> murder illegal stops murder. How many were killed in your local community
this year?
>
> Change will come only when we pass on the Christian understanding of
> stewardship to individuals. People make changes not governments.
>
> Be responsible and teach responsibility.
>
> Don Perrett
> Free Christian

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Received on Sat Jan 13 00:24:46 2007