Re: [asa] Learning from Ron Numbers

Ron has studied the HISTORY of creationism. How do you deal with the actual
arguments of creationism . As you assess them you are bound to have to
repeat on innumerable occasions.

This is a misquote
This is bad science
This is not atheistic
all against a background of non-creationists being called compromisers ,
rejecters of God's Word etc. Further however gently you express the response
is still the same.

Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Mahaffy" <Mahaffy@dordt.edu>
To: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:18 PM
Subject: [asa] Learning from Ron Numbers

> Folks,
>
> An interview with Ron Numbers just came to my attention. He was
> interviewed after giving a talk in Salon and I thought he said some
> things which might be helpful to us. Note especially the last answer I
> have quoted that starts:
> "Unlike many people, I haven't gone out of my way to attack or ridicule
> critics of evolution"
>
> Sad that Numbers who is an agnostic treats YEC and others he disagrees
> with with more respect than I find in the way we treat each other or
> those we disagree with on this list.
>
>
> By Steve Paulson of Loan
>
> Found at url:
> http://www.salon.com/books/int/2007/01/02/numbers/index.html
> [snip]
> There's a stereotype that creationists just aren't that smart. I mean,
> how can you ignore the steady accumulation of scientific evidence for
> evolution? Is this a question of intelligence or education?
> Not fundamentally. There is a slight skewing of anti-evolutionists
> toward lower levels of education. But it's not huge. One recent poll
> showed that a quarter of college graduates in America reject evolution.
> So it's not education itself that's doing this. There are really dumb
> creationists and there are really dumb evolutionists. Of the 10 founders
> of the Creation Research Society, five of them earned doctorates in the
> biological sciences from major universities. Another had a Ph.D. from
> Berkeley in biochemistry. Another had a Ph.D. from the University of
> Minnesota. These were not dumb, uneducated people. They rejected
> evolution for religious and, they would say, scientific reasons.
>
> But that's so hard to understand. If you get a graduate degree in the
> biological sciences, how can you still allow religion to trump science?
>
> They don't see it that way. They see religion as informing their
> scientific choices. I think it's extremely hard for human beings to see
> the world as others see it. I have a hard time seeing the world as
> Muslim fundamentalists see it. And yet, there are many very smart
> Muslims out there who have a totally different cosmology and theology
> from what I have. I think one of the goals of education is to help
> students, and perhaps help ourselves, see the world the way others see
> it so we don't just judge and say, "They're just too stupid to know
> better.
> "
> My guess is that the most persuasive arguments for evolution are not
> going to come through scientific reasoning. They're going to come from
> scientists, and from theologians and other people of faith, who say you
> can believe in God and still accept evolution, that there's nothing
> incompatible about the two. Do you agree?
> To a large extent, I do. But I think the influence of those
> middle-ground people is limited. Conservatives don't trust them. They
> think they've already sold out to modernism and liberalism. And a lot of
> the more radical scientists spurn them as well. Richard Dawkins, for
> example, would argue that evolution is inherently atheistic. That's
> exactly what the fundamentalists are saying. They agree on that. So you
> have these people in the middle saying, "No, no. It's not atheistic for
> me. I believe in God and maybe in Jesus Christ. And in evolution."
> Having these loud voices on either side of them really tends to restrict
> the influence that they might otherwise have.
> [Snip]
>
> Now, one thing I find curious is your own position in this debate. Your
> book "The Creationists" is generally acknowledged to be the history of
> creationism. You've also been very upfront about your own lack of
> religious belief. Yet, as far as I can tell, you seem to be held in high
> regard both by creationists and by scientists, which -- I have to say --
> is a neat trick. How have you managed this?
> Unlike many people, I haven't gone out of my way to attack or ridicule
> critics of evolution. I know some of the people I've written about.
> They're good people. I know it's not because they're stupid that they
> are creationists. I'm talking about all my family, too, who are still
> creationists. So that easy explanation that so many anti-creationists
> use -- that they're just illiterate hillbillies -- doesn't have any
> appeal to me, although I'm quite happy to admit that there are some
> really stupid creationists.
>
>
> --
>
> James Mahaffy (mahaffy@dordt.edu) Phone: 712 722-6279
> 498 4th Ave NE
> Biology Department FAX : 712
> 722-1198
> Dordt College, Sioux Center IA 51250-1697
>
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Received on Tue Jan 9 02:45:24 2007