Re: [asa] [ASA] Life on Mars

Probably not. Lewis' trilogy has many good features but he follows the western tradition in picturing the original condition of intelligent creatures as a status integritatis
in which there is a realistic probability of them not sinning. For creatures who have evolved through the processes of natural selection this is quite unlikely. If we ever do encounter intelligent ETs, it is almost certain that they will have sinned.

Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: D. F. Siemens, Jr.
  To: dopderbeck@gmail.com
  Cc: mrb22667@kansas.net ; asa@calvin.edu
  Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:39 PM
  Subject: Re: [asa] [ASA] Life on Mars

  Don't we have a reasonable response to extraterrestrial life in C. S. Lewis's space trilogy? Entities may exist with or without the need for redemption, but all are within the scope of the Almighty's plan.
  Dave

  On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 17:37:25 -0500 "David Opderbeck" <dopderbeck@gmail.com> writes:
    I wouldn't expect the discovery of extraterrestrial life per se to be troubling. If there are or were microbes on Mars, that doesn't seem to threaten the doctrine of creation. The discovery of sentient, intelligent extraterrestrial life, however, could be troubling, as it would call into question humanity's place in creation, the extent of sin, the nature of the atonement, and the eschatological future of such beings. Even then, though, it doesn't seem this would have to be paradigm-shattering. We know for sure, after all, that there is intelligent life other than humans, because the Bible mentions "spiritual" beings such as angels and demons, and such beings apparently don't benefit from the atonement but have an eschatological future that intertwines with that of humans. (If angels are "spiritual" beings, does that mean they aren't part of the "universe?") I think what would be paradigm shattering would be the discovery of intelligent life that has no notion of the one true God.

    On 1/7/07, Merv <mrb22667@kansas.net> wrote:
      Would the discovery of extraterrestrial life (even recognizably
      intelligent life) be any different from previous theological shakeups?
      That we aren't at the center of the universe ---- and that our sun
      isn't even at the center, those things aren't recognized as threatening
      to faith any more. But our easy and sophisticated assimilation of that
      into our world view isn't an indicator of superior intellect. It is
      rather an indicator of our historical distance from those major paradigm
      shifts.

      It is easy to imagine a couple more stages happening: the discovery of
      non-terrestrial life, and then beyond that, the discovery of other
      intelligent life. Both would invoke a round of 'ahas!' and 'toldyouso'
      from every different side (all of whom would, of course, wax eloquent
      about how great this new evidence is for what they already thought
      anyway). And then a century or two after all the rumpus subsides, we
      will have Christians still evangelizing and wondering why the existence
      of alien life used to be such a big deal, and we would also still have
      atheists happily declaring that Christianity is being refuted by
      everything that comes into their field of vision.

      Here is what would, to me, be the bigger surprise: what if we explore
      out into the galaxy (full-fledged Star Trek style) and discover
      ...... exactly NOTHING. No life ---- not so much as a microbe
      ---- no anomalous sentient entities to zap a starship for trespassing
      ... NADA. That, to me would be an even bigger shakeup to the way I
      think because it would be an apparent break from the inertia of
      dethroning our every "we're so special" sentiment. It has never been
      enough to just accept that we're special because God loves us. We keep
      wanting to hearken to some physical evidence of our uniqueness, but I'm
      wondering of these are mostly doomed to be overturned as some have
      already dramatically been.

        To think that we could be alone in the galaxy (let alone the
      universe) is a rather staggering thought rather akin to thinking
      ourselves the center of it. Of course the negative proposition can
      never be proved until every corner is explored (so either we do meet new
      life, or we will be left wondering...) Faith goes on either way, and
      scientific (evolutionary) thought will assimilate either future as
      well. My how adaptable it all is!

      --merv

      George Murphy wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johan Jammart" < j_jammart@yahoo.fr>
>> I just heard about this news:
>>
>> "Two dark gullies turned bright as NASA's now-lost Mars Global
>> Surveyor looked on, suggesting liquid water still flows on the Red
>> Planet "
>>
>> http://www.asa3.org:16080/weblog/jackhaas/2006/12/06/WaterflowsonMarsbeforeourver.html
>>
>>
>> Of course presence of water doesn't mean presence of extraterrestrial
>> life, but speculation usually abound with such news.
>>
>> If presence of life would be found on mars, would it shake your
>> faith? I would like to have your opinions on this! Many thanks in
>> advance!
>
> The existence of intelligent life elsewhere (which is unlikely on
> Mars!) would require some theological work but there's no reason why
> the type of life which might exist on Mars (now or in the past) should
> shake anyone's faith.
>
> My most reason "Handiwork" column for the journal _Lutheran Partners_
> deals with this issue. It can be found at
> http://www.elca.org/lutheranpartners/handiwork/past/070102.html . (I
> hope my references to my own writings don't seem too self-promoting
> but it seems more sensible to do that than to write the same things
> over & over, especially if articles are on the web.)
>
> Shalom
> George
> http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
>

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    David W. Opderbeck
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Received on Sun Jan 7 19:12:41 2007