Re: [asa] God as Cause

 *if in fact the truth is, "it's both".*

I like this Jon. It's interesting how many times in Christian theology we
can say this. Is God sovereign or do people have free will? Was Jesus man
or God? Is God three or one? Is God perfectly just or perfectly merciful?
Has the Kingdom of God already come in Christ or is it yet to come at
Christ's return? Will Christ return to judge or to bless? All of these
seem to be the same sort of question as "are natural events ascribed to
natural causes or divine causation?" They are apparently polar questions
without polar answers because God's character and wisdom transcend our
limitations.

On 1/5/07, Jon Tandy <tandyland@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Bill Hamilton wrote:
> >>When I was a new Christian 35 years ago I became intrigued with the
> difference between the Bible's view of demon possession and modern
> psychiatry's view that mental disorders are caused by chemical imbalances,
> not demons. Eventually I concluded that it's certainly possible that
demons
> work by creating chemical imbalances.
>
> I have no intention of spinning off a controversial thread on the subject
of
> demon possession, but I have considered very interesting the same thing as
> you refer to above. I think what you have suggested is entirely possible

--
> AND/OR the reverse could be true.  It could be that demonic possession
> actually creates chemical imbalances.  I believe I've read the same thing
> can be seen in clinical psychology, where a mental depression can be
caused
> by chemical imbalance, or an attitude of depression can actually create
> chemical imbalances in the brain, thus generating a vicious cycle.  (I'm
> certainly no expert and am open to correction.)  The treatment might come
> through medical intervention for the chemical imbalance, or through
> psychological counselling, or a combination.  If this is true in
> psychological disorders, certainly spiritual disorders could have similar
> repercussions.
>
> Secular psychologists sometimes fall into a reductionist error, thinking
> that such psychological disorders are purely chemical and mental, and
> denying the possibility of spiritual causes.  By the same token, religious
> counselors of the mentally depressed sometimes fall into the opposite
error,
> considering the spiritual side to be the only valid cause, and not taking
> advantage of appropriate medical options which might in some cases assist
> spiritual counseling and healing.  In either case, whether healing comes
> through medical or spiritual sources, or both, God is still ultimately the
> cause of healing.  (I might also interject a different topic, when I get a
> cut which heals up spontaneously due to blood clotting, etc., both God and
> natural causes could be invoked, but ultimately it's through faith that I
> praise God for his marvelous design of the human body.)
>
> I think this example is a good illustration of the original question, how
> can God be the Creator and yet creation can be described as coming through
> physical causes.  It doesn't have to be one or the other.
>
> Also a thought about Steven J. Gould's "non-overlapping magesteria"
concept:
> it seems to me that this dichotomoy exists more in the mind of the
observer
> than in the reality itself.  If one _chooses_ to see clinical depression,
or
> healing, or creation, as either natural or spiritual (but never both, and
> with no relationship between the two), then the non-overlapping magesteria
> is merely a function of the observer's bias -- if in fact the truth is,
> "it's both".
>
>
>
> Jon Tandy
>
>
>
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-- 
David W. Opderbeck
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