Re: [asa] Random and design

If I understand you correctly this depravity applies to all, and in
fact one may very well argue that anyone has failed to comprehend the
depths of one's own depravity, at least under your 'logic'. But this
was about abusing Christ's teachings to evangelize a position of
expecting the worst from each other and from social institutions and
movements. When in fact, it now seems clear that good and evil are
expressed with respect to what is done for the Glory of God makes the
discussion one of equivocation.

On the one hand we as Christians accept that we are sinful in our
relationship with God and that we are in this aspect unable to do
much good, on the other hand we have to determine how to treat
others. By conflating the meaning of the term 'good' as it pertains
to Christians and their relationship to God, with an overall
'depravity of man' leading one to conclude that we should hope for
the best and expect the worst, we are confusing the concepts of good
and evil.

We may be evil in that much of the good we do is not done for the
Glory of God and yet such good deeds may still allow one to expect
the best from its fellow people.
I understand that God allows this freedom to interpret His Words in
what I see a troubling way leading one to expect the worst of one's
fellow man. What I am pointing out is that your arguments do not flow
logically and are based on a philosophical position that our sinful
relationship with God makes us 'sinful' to our fellow men.
Given the extent of altruism and reciprocal altruism found not only
amongst men but also on other levels of His Creation, I do not see a
logical link between the two, in fact I see 'love thy neighbor' as an
essential teaching, showing that we should not distrust them. That's
the message of love I find in the Scriptures.

<quote>One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating.
Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of
all the commandments, which is the most important?" "The most
important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord
our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart
and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your
strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
There is no commandment greater than these." (NIV, Mark 12:28-31)</
quote>

Such commandments seem hard to reconcile with one of 'hope for the
best, expect the worst'

On Nov 24, 2006, at 3:17 PM, Janice Matchett wrote:

> At 06:02 PM 11/24/2006, Pim van Meurs wrote:
>> You mean it is your interpretation of scriptural teachings. This
>> is very much a philosophical interpretation. Calling it a plain
>> Scriptural teaching is just begging the question.
>>
>> By defining good at that which is done for the glory of God merely
>> makes the discussion about good and bad one of a poor definition.
>
> @ Since you haven't comprehended the depths of your own depravity,
> I have no doubt that you probably haven't comprehended the extent
> of the freedom that Christ's sacrifice gives to his Redeemed. In
> fact -- the freedom that they have allows behavior that might cause
> pharisaical Christians to doubt that they're really regenerate
> Christians.
>
> ~ Janice "Christians may love God and do as they please." Martin
> Luther Deep, man. Deep. (Don't knee-jerk it) :)

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Received on Fri Nov 24 20:36:12 2006