Re: [asa] An Evolutionary Theory of Right and Wrong

*I see you have done your internet homework*
**
Thank you. Actually these are things I've been studying and living for
about 30 years, so I don't really need to look them up. BTW, I'm not
sure
who "Thomas de Aquino" is, but maybe you should do a little more
homework
yourself. Lately I've been reading Pelikan's history of the early
church; I
finished Latourette's two volumes last year, and I also started on
Wilken's
"The Spirit of Early Christian Thought." When I've been studying
scripture
in the mornings before work, I've been using the IVP Ancient Christian
Commentary series -- just finished Romans. I've been reading parts of
Aquinas' *Summa *for the work I'm doing on Virtue Ethics, along with
contemporary sources on virtue ethics, religious and secular, such as
Foote
and MacIntyre, and Robert George and John Finnis on natural law. Of
course
you also need to read Augustine's City of God. A few months ago I read
through most of the first volume of the recently released "The
Teachings of
Modern Christianity on Law, Politics & Human Nature." Glen Stassen's
"Living the Sermon on the Mount" is an excellent overview of Jesus'
ethics;
I also like Hauerwas. And there are a dozen or so journals and
periodicals
I keep up with in this field. Heres' my list of recommended works as a
starter:
http://www.davidopderbeck.com/archives/2006/09/book_list_faith.html

So anyway, there are many, many people more knowledgeable and better
read on
these things than me, but I feel comfortable saying that my views aren't
scraped off of some website, but are within the broad and deep stream
of the
Christian tradition.

Anyway, Pim, you still haven't answered the question: is child
slavery and
pedophilia always wrong?

On 11/2/06, Pim van Meurs <pimvanmeurs@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I see you have done your internet homework. You may have forgotten
> the
> attribution of the page http://www.gotquestions.org/pedophilia.html
>
> Yes, I read that page as well and found it very dissatisfying as it
> does
> not address why we accept sex before marriage between man and woman
> when
> both are of similar age but reject such when the age difference is
> more
> significant.
>
> And what if the relationship involves 'marriage' is it then ok to have
> such an age disparate relationship. So remind me again where does
> the Bible
> speak out explicitly against pediophilia, or is it really silent on
> these
> issues and leaves the interpretation of how to deal with these
> issues to its
> followers to second guess?
>
>
>
> On Nov 2, 2006, at 6:01 AM, David Opderbeck wrote:
>
> *Remind me again how the bible speaks out on these issues?*
> **
> The Bible speaks repeatedly about "sexual immorality." The Greek work
> "porneia" that is translated "sexual immorality" is a broad term that
> encompasses all sorts of sexual relations outside marriage. The
> Bible's
> sexual ethics are clear that sexual relations are a gift given to a
> man and
> woman in marriage. That has been the teaching of the Jewish
> exegetes and of
> the Church for millennia. So, it isn't just a matter of my personal
> preference; it's a matter of the scriptures and the deepest
> traditions of
> the Abrahamic faiths.
>
> All of this is before we get to Jesus' summary of the law of love. I
> think I'm on safe ground when I affirm that Jesus' law of love is
> violated
> by enslaving and raping a child.
>
>
>
>
> Begging the question. What does the Bible have to say about selling a
> young child into servantship for instance? What does the Bible have
> to say
> about rape?
>
>
>
> I can be clear about this: pedophilia and child slavery are immoral
> according to the rich ethical tradition in which I participate.
> The ethic
> to which I aspire is dominated by Jesus' law of love.
>
>
>
>
>
> Aha, tradition... Well, such a tradition also exists for many who
> do not
> share your religion and yet found very similar conclusions. Which
> gets us
> back to the findings that from a morality perspective religious
> people and
> atheists are very similar.
>
>
>
>
> What about you, Pim? Can you state clearly on the record that child
> slavery and pedophilia are immoral? Can you affirm without
> hesitation that
> the law should prohibit such practices regardless of any utilitarian
> calculation?
>
>
>
>
>
> I can state it but the question is do I have a non begging the
> question
> foundation for this. You nor I seem to have found one so far which
> does not
> similarly extend to non christians as well.
>
>
>
> On 11/2/06, Pim van Meurs <pimvanmeurs@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Nov 1, 2006, at 9:00 PM, David Opderbeck wrote:
>>
>>> So there may not necessarily be an objection to pedophilia when it
>>> passes the moral grammar and the cultural, religious, social etc
>>> constraints placed upon this
>>> There's not much I can add to this. Thanks for being honest about
>>> it. If this is where Hauser and friends lead, count me out.
>>>
>>
>> Remind me again how the bible speaks out on these issues? What does
>> the bible say about pedophilia? My guess? Nothing. So how do we as
>> Christians oppose pedophilia if there is not necessarily a biblical
>> objection to this?
>>
>>
>>
>> To argue that the Bible opposes such because it contradicts your
>> ethics seems quite meaningless. So why would our innate ethics oppose
>> such behavior, even though over time there have been various examples
>> of young children being married based on religious beliefs, etc.? Why
>> not explore these questions rather than run from them because they
>> may hit too close to home?
>> Especially when the Bible may not offer much support one way or the
>> other to oppose pedophilia either?
>>
>
>
>
>

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Received on Thu Nov 2 12:56:37 2006