I see you have done your internet homework. You may have forgotten
the attribution of the page http://www.gotquestions.org/pedophilia.html
Yes, I read that page as well and found it very dissatisfying as it
does not address why we accept sex before marriage between man and
woman when both are of similar age but reject such when the age
difference is more significant.
And what if the relationship involves 'marriage' is it then ok to
have such an age disparate relationship. So remind me again where
does the Bible speak out explicitly against pediophilia, or is it
really silent on these issues and leaves the interpretation of how to
deal with these issues to its followers to second guess?
On Nov 2, 2006, at 6:01 AM, David Opderbeck wrote:
> Remind me again how the bible speaks out on these issues?
>
> The Bible speaks repeatedly about "sexual immorality." The Greek
> work "porneia" that is translated "sexual immorality" is a broad
> term that encompasses all sorts of sexual relations outside
> marriage. The Bible's sexual ethics are clear that sexual
> relations are a gift given to a man and woman in marriage. That
> has been the teaching of the Jewish exegetes and of the Church for
> millennia. So, it isn't just a matter of my personal preference;
> it's a matter of the scriptures and the deepest traditions of the
> Abrahamic faiths.
>
> All of this is before we get to Jesus' summary of the law of love.
> I think I'm on safe ground when I affirm that Jesus' law of love is
> violated by enslaving and raping a child.
>
Begging the question. What does the Bible have to say about selling a
young child into servantship for instance? What does the Bible have
to say about rape?
> I can be clear about this: pedophilia and child slavery are
> immoral according to the rich ethical tradition in which I
> participate. The ethic to which I aspire is dominated by Jesus'
> law of love.
>
Aha, tradition... Well, such a tradition also exists for many who do
not share your religion and yet found very similar conclusions.
Which gets us back to the findings that from a morality perspective
religious people and atheists are very similar.
>
> What about you, Pim? Can you state clearly on the record that
> child slavery and pedophilia are immoral? Can you affirm without
> hesitation that the law should prohibit such practices regardless
> of any utilitarian calculation?
>
I can state it but the question is do I have a non begging the
question foundation for this. You nor I seem to have found one so far
which does not similarly extend to non christians as well.
>
>
> On 11/2/06, Pim van Meurs <pimvanmeurs@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> On Nov 1, 2006, at 9:00 PM, David Opderbeck wrote:
>
>> So there may not necessarily be an objection to pedophilia when it
>> passes the moral grammar and the cultural, religious, social etc
>> constraints placed upon this
>> There's not much I can add to this. Thanks for being honest about
>> it. If this is where Hauser and friends lead, count me out.
>>
>
> Remind me again how the bible speaks out on these issues? What does
> the bible say about pedophilia? My guess? Nothing. So how do we as
> Christians oppose pedophilia if there is not necessarily a biblical
> objection to this?
>
>
>
> To argue that the Bible opposes such because it contradicts your
> ethics seems quite meaningless. So why would our innate ethics oppose
> such behavior, even though over time there have been various examples
> of young children being married based on religious beliefs, etc.? Why
> not explore these questions rather than run from them because they
> may hit too close to home?
> Especially when the Bible may not offer much support one way or the
> other to oppose pedophilia either?
>
--Apple-Mail-2--505273887
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1
<HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
-khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">I see you have done your =
internet homework.=A0 You may have forgotten the attribution of the =
page=A0<A =
href=3D"http://www.gotquestions.org/pedophilia.html">http://
www.gotquestio=
ns.org/pedophilia.html</A><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Yes, I read that page as =
well and found it very dissatisfying as it does not address why we =
accept sex before marriage between man and woman when both are of =
similar age but reject such when the age difference is more =
significant.<DIV><BR class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>And =
what if the relationship involves 'marriage' is it then ok to have
such =
an age disparate relationship. So remind me again where does the Bible =
speak out explicitly against pediophilia, or is it really silent on =
these issues and leaves the interpretation of how to deal with these =
issues to its followers to second guess?</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On Nov 2, =
2006, at 6:01 AM, David Opderbeck wrote:</DIV><BR =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE =
type=3D"cite"><DIV><EM>Remind me again how the bible speaks out on
these =
issues?</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM>=A0</DIV> <DIV>The Bible speaks =
repeatedly about "sexual immorality."=A0 The Greek work "porneia" that =
is translated "sexual immorality" is a broad term that encompasses all =
sorts of sexual relations outside marriage.=A0 The Bible's sexual
ethics =
are clear that sexual relations are a gift given to a man and woman in =
marriage.=A0 That has been the teaching of the Jewish exegetes and of =
the Church for millennia.=A0 So, it isn't just a matter of my personal =
preference; it's a matter of the scriptures and the deepest traditions =
of the Abrahamic faiths.=A0 </DIV> <DIV>=A0</DIV> <DIV>All of this is =
before we get to Jesus' summary of the law of love.=A0 I think I'm on =
safe ground when I affirm that Jesus' law of love is violated by =
enslaving and raping a child.</DIV> <DIV>=A0</DIV></
BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Begging the question.
What =
does the Bible have to say about selling a young child into
servantship =
for instance? What does the Bible have to say about rape?</
DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"> =
<DIV>I can be clear about this:=A0 pedophilia and child slavery are =
immoral according to the rich ethical tradition in which I
participate.=A0=
The ethic to which I aspire is dominated by Jesus' law of love.</
DIV> =
<DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Aha, tradition... Well, =
such a tradition also exists for many who do not share your religion
and =
yet found very similar conclusions.=A0 Which gets us back to the =
findings that from a morality perspective religious people and
atheists =
are very similar.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE =
type=3D"cite"><DIV>=A0</DIV> <DIV>What about you, Pim?=A0 Can you
state =
clearly on the record that child slavery and pedophilia are immoral?
=A0 =
Can you affirm without hesitation that the law should prohibit such =
practices regardless of any utilitarian calculation? </DIV> =
<DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I can state it but the =
question is do I have a non begging the question foundation for this. =
You nor I seem to have found one so far which does not similarly
extend =
to non christians as well.</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE =
type=3D"cite"><DIV><BR>=A0</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D"gmail_quote">On =
11/2/06, <B class=3D"gmail_sendername">Pim van Meurs</B> <<A =
href=3D"mailto:pimvanmeurs@yahoo.com">pimvanmeurs@yahoo.com</A>> =
wrote:</SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: =
1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><BR>On
Nov =
1, 2006, at 9:00 PM, David Opderbeck wrote:<BR><BR>> So there may
not =
necessarily be an objection to pedophilia when it <BR>> passes the =
moral grammar and the cultural, religious, social etc<BR>> =
constraints placed upon this<BR>> There's not much I can add to =
this.=A0=A0Thanks for being honest about<BR>> it.=A0=A0If this is =
where Hauser and friends lead, count me out. <BR>><BR><BR>Remind me =
again how the bible speaks out on these issues? What does<BR>the bible =
say about pedophilia? My guess? Nothing. So how do we as<BR>Christians =
oppose pedophilia if there is not necessarily a biblical <BR>objection =
to this?<BR><BR><BR><BR>To argue that the Bible opposes such because
it =
contradicts your<BR>ethics seems quite meaningless. So why would our =
innate ethics oppose<BR>such behavior, even though over time there
have =
been various examples <BR>of young children being married based on =
religious beliefs, etc.? Why<BR>not explore these questions rather
than =
run from them because they<BR>may hit too close to home?<BR>Especially =
when the Bible may not offer much support one way or the <BR>other to =
oppose pedophilia =
either?<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></
DIV></BOD=
Y></HTML>=
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Received on Thu Nov 2 11:52:34 2006
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