Re: [asa] McGrath, Torrance, and Monistic View

Thanks for clarifying. My first encounter with the term was through
Warren Brown's appropriation of it, so perhaps my perspective was a bit
skewed. Now that I'm aware that it may have a more general theological
meaning, I'll have to educate myself further before throwing the term
around. I do remember thinking that the Biblical base seemed weak for
that particular chapter (Jesus telling us to fear Him who can kill
both body and soul rather than those who can only kill the body seems
strongly dualist to me) yet his questions prompting his monist leanings
seemed like good ones --- why do physical changes imposed on the brain
seem to impact on so many facets of our identity & spiritual life that
we would typically think of as "soulish" functions? But our lack of
answers to such questions didn't seem to me to justify overhauling a
scripturally based understanding of body and soul.

--merv

George Murphy wrote:
> Yes, I'd forgotten this. It's the chapter by Warren Brown,
> "Evolution, Cognitive Neuroscience, and the Soul." He does use the
> term "monism" to include his position of "nonreductive physicalism."
>
> IMO there's the good deal to be said for that view - when talking
> about human beings. But the claim that mind can be understood
> entirely (though nonreductively" in physical terms seems to founder
> when it comes to God. & it's really only a view in which God (if God
> exists) can be understood as physical that could be called "monism" in
> the strict sense.
>
> Shalom
> George
> http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/ <http://web.raex.com/%7Egmurphy/>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Merv <mailto:mrb22667@kansas.net>
> *To:* David Opderbeck <mailto:dopderbeck@gmail.com> ;
> asa@calvin.edu <mailto:asa@calvin.edu>
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 15, 2006 6:53 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [asa] McGrath, Torrance, and Monistic View
>
> I think "monism" can also refer to a perspective of a unified body
> and soul. One of the authors in Keith Miller's "Perspectives
> ..." I think advocated a position referred to that way -- i.e.
> "soul" being seen as a physical manifestation just as the body
> is. It's been too long since I read it or listened to him when
> he came to K-State, so I can't be more specific, but it was
> written within the context of being evangelical, so I would guess
> that not everyone shares in the "dualism = orthodox and monism =
> heterodox" formula. Perhaps Keith Miller can elaborate if he's
> still following these threads. I may be putting words in
> somebody else's mouth.
>
> --merv
>
> David Opderbeck wrote:
>> Thanks Phil. The person I was speaking with isn't evangelical or
>> Christian at all in any traditional sense. He was criticizing
>> McGrath's evangelical-ness when he used the term "monist." Maybe
>> he used the wrong term?
>>
>> On 10/15/06, *philtill@aol.com <mailto:philtill@aol.com>*
>> <philtill@aol.com <mailto:philtill@aol.com>> wrote:
>>
>> David,
>> I spent a week sitting in a TV studio as part of McGrath's
>> audience while he taped a seminar on science and
>> Christianity. During the entire seminar I never picked up
>> that McGrath was anything other than an orthodox Anglican
>> evangelical. I never picked up that he held to any monist
>> ideas of God. Perhaps this is someone's interpretation of
>> McGrath's beliefs, rather than McGrath's own interpretation
>> of them.
>>
>> "Monism" usually means that belief that only One entity
>> fundamentally exists, and that all the varied things we
>> experience are really just manifestations of that One.
>> Monistic faiths include Pantheism (incl. Hinduism), which
>> asserts that everything is really God in the final analysis,
>> and atheism, which asserts that everything is really non-God
>> in the final analysis. Non-monistic faiths include
>> Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, because they assert that
>> God both exists and **created** things, and that this
>> creating brought into existence things that stand
>> as **other** than Himself. That is, there is a
>> Creator/creation distinction in non-monist faiths, and so God
>> is not the only thing that exists. It has been claimed that
>> the good vs. evil distinction cannot exist in monism, since
>> good is defined by the creator and non-good can only be a
>> property of beings that are not the creator. Hence, good and
>> evil ultimately just illusions in monist belief systems like
>> Hinduism or atheism. I have a hard time believing McGrath is
>> really monist.
>>
>> He seemed like a very nice person, and you might get to speak
>> with him if you give him a call. He is not teaching right
>> now because he won a Templeton fellowship to focus on
>> research regarding the interface between science and
>> Christianity, and he was very excited about that. He might
>> be willing to talk with you if you introduce yourself stating
>> your credentials and your interests.
>>
>> best,
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>

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Received on Sun Oct 15 20:17:46 2006