Re: [asa] The Origin(s) of 'Scientism'

Hello Dave,
   
  Sorry, I don't follow what you mean. How is a 'checklist' in itself naturalistic? Do you mean it is 'natural' to use a checklist in some social sciences for certain purposes? That is, it is characteristic of certain disciplines to use checklists?

  In the message below, I used the word 'naturalistic' twice. Once, it was conjugating the word 'naturalism,' which Don used together with methodological. The second time was to suggest that science can be methodologically non-naturalistic (i.e. methodological naturalism is not the totality of 'science'), which is not a minor claim. How do you think this is narrow?
   
  In what (wider) way then do you use 'naturalistic,' that will help me to understand how I may or may not be applying it differently?
   
  Gregory
   
   
  p.s. incidentally, 'scientistic' is the parallel conjugation of 'scientism'

   
  "D. F. Siemens, Jr." <dfsiemensjr@juno.com> wrote:
      Greg,
  I think you are using "naturalistic" in a narrower sense than most of us do. I take a checklist, such as used in the social sciences and some areas of psychology, to be naturalistic, though it is not a strictly physical measurement. The use of a checklist to infer a mental or social state is legitimate, up to a point. But it cannot be used to infer that there is an immaterial soul in the makeup of human beings.
   
  Scientism has degrees, from using the "scientific method" to justify value theory to dogmatic declarations that what science studies is all there is or all that can be studied.
  Dave
   
  On Mon, 7 Aug 2006 15:43:12 -0400 (EDT) Gregory Arago <gregoryarago@yahoo.ca> writes:
    Please excuse, I had planned to drop the topic already, given the helpful answers and links. But Don’s reply got me thinking.
   
  Don wrote: “The way I use the term scientism, the scientific method is essentially identical with methodological naturalism.”
   
  This doesn’t seem exactly right to me, since a definition that equates ‘scientific method’ with ‘naturalistic’ has its own turn to take in dispelling ideology. The reason I brought in applied science and social science with natural science was to distinguish that science can be non-naturalistic in its methodology. It may be that natural scientists want to have a monopoly on ‘scientific’ practice and that would be both unjust and inaccurate.
   
  I had done the Google searches already before the OP and found some of the dictionary definitions. There are apparently many levels of ‘scientism,’ least of which imo is simply ‘doing science.’
   
  According to Steve Fuller at Warwick University, scientism is “the doctrine that science can justify value commitments,” for which he cites Tom Sorell’s Scientism (1991, Routledge).
   
  Further, he adds that, “scientistic thinkers blur the boundaries between ‘is’ and ‘ought,’ ‘fact’ and ‘value,’ ‘natural’ and ‘rationally’ - - typically by assimilating the latter term in each binary to the former. For the most part, postmodernists appear to be ‘antiscience’ only because scientists still harbour a puritanical attitude toward science that would drive a sharp wedge between these pairs of terms.” (“The Re-Enchantment of Science: A Fit End to the Science Wars?” 1999)
   
  Perhaps those at ASA who would protect their domain of science while admitting that it is a limited sphere of knowledge, would be willing to comment on when their colleagues exceed disciplinary boundaries and pronounce on extra-scientific things such as value commitments. When does a puritanical attitude toward science assume things that it is trying to prove?
   
  In particular, the issue of blurring the boundary between ‘natural’ and ‘rational’ seemed most acute to me. Whenever someone writes ‘the nature of,’ my ears perk up for what is to follow. I also wonder if 'scientism' could be used for the opposite of what Don mentions, when someone moves from a discussion of religion to a discussion of evolution, perhaps with the notion that evolution enables them to be an intellectually fulfilled theist.
   
  Arago
   

                 
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Received on Tue Aug 8 04:55:38 2006