Re: [asa] True Scotsman fallacy - was Of m....

*You spoke of "bible" above, that is the old and the new, but you couldn't
possibly be talking about the new testament in relation to apartheid.*

I don't know what you mean here. I view both the OT and NT together as the
"Bible," and take it as a basic principle of hermeneutics that they form an
overarching narrative with some degree of consistency. For a Christian to
take an OT passage about Israel and the Canaanites at a specific point in
redemption history and apply it to some contemporary notion of "holy war"
without going through the lense of Jesus and the NT (not to mention much of
the rest of the OT), IMHO, is "ripping a passage out of context."

*What of these people who are driven out? Where is the constant of God's
love?*

This is exactly the sort of context-ripping I mention above. Those people
weren't judged because of their ethnicity; they were judged because of their
sin. Had they chosen faith and obedience, they would not have been judged.
Read Jonah and look at how God dealt with Ninevah if you think otherwise.

Israel was chosen because of God's grace and was given the law and the
prophets, but even Israel failed and was judged through exile in Babylon.
As the sections of Romans I cited earlier make clear, even from the time of
Abraham acceptance of anyone by God was and is based on grace and faith, not
on ethnicity.

On 7/31/06, RFaussette@aol.com <RFaussette@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 7/31/2006 2:02:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dopderbeck@gmail.com writes:
>
> You're being disingenuous aren't you?
>
> No. The discussion was about Christianity, not specifically about the
OT. I didn't shift it there; that's where it was.
>
> and mistakenly assumed anyone who was a Christian would know that love was
not universal in the old but confined to the "chosen." I thought the
difference between the old and the new testaments was common knowledge, yet
you don't seem to appreciate the very core of supercession.
>
> I don't agree with what I perceive to be your understanding of God's
love. God's love is constant, as it is a basic attribute of His character,
and it was available to all prior to the coming of Christ.
>
>
> The discussion is always about Christianity, but here is what I responded
to. You wrote it:
>
>
> In a message dated 7/31/2006 10:14:18 AM Eastern Standard Time,
dopderbeck@gmail.com writes:
> It seems entirely appropriate to me in response to that premise to
separate the conduct of some Christians from the teachings and ideals of the
Bible. Yes, some people calling themselves "Christians" ripped some Bible
passages out of context and distorted them to support evils like Apartheid.

>
>
>
> You spoke of "bible" above, that is the old and the new, but you couldn't
possibly be talking about the new testament in relation to apartheid.
Judaism is a tribal religion by definition and by definition you can expect
to find OT content that reflects their tribal affinities. They are chosen by
God. Christianity is a universal religion. If you choose God, you are
welcome. There is a vast difference between a tribal religion and a
universal religion as reflected in the OT and the NT.
>
> "The Hebrew people, as the Books of the Old Testament testify, were aware
to a unique degree of God's love for them, manifested in the form of a
gratuitous covenant with him. In this sense, since they were the object of a
choice and a promise, the Hebrew people stood apart from others. The
criterion of distinction, however, was God's plan of salvation unfolded in
history. Israel was considered the Lord's very own among all peoples."
> From: The Church and Racism: Towards a More Fraternal Society issued by
the
> Pontifical Commission for Justice and Peace - November 3, 1988 Roger
Cardinal Etchegaray, President, Jorge Mejia, Vice President
>
> If you think the constant of God's love was available to all before the
coming of Christ, you missed the old covenant.
>
>
>
> "Observe all I command you this day and I for my part will drive out
before you the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Hittites and the
Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites. Be careful not to make a
covenant with the natives of the land against which you are going, or they
will prove a snare in your midst." Exodus 34 (10-14)
>
>
> No: you shall demolish their altars, smash their sacred pillars and cut
down their sacred poles."
>
> What of these people who are driven out? Where is the constant of God's
love? Have you been invited to join any orthodox community lately? They
don't proselytize.
>
>
> You didn't make it clear that any quotes coming out of biblical context
that were used to promote apartheid could only come from the OT.
>
> I made it clear. I also made the nature of supercession obvious.
Christianity is morally superior to Judaism because it is all inclusive and
not elitist or ethnically based.
>
> rich faussette

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Received on Mon Jul 31 18:13:39 2006