Re: [asa] AIG -- Scientists! Give it up! - private

I would advise any British or American member of the forces to refuse to fight in Iraq or Afghanistan. To do so is a perverse patriotism

Michael
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Dick Fischer
  To: ASA
  Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 3:25 PM
  Subject: RE: [asa] AIG -- Scientists! Give it up! - private

  Hi Iain:

  I didn't intend to bring up my war record as if I was bragging about it, just to show that when some fled to Canada to avoid the draft, I and many others were obedient to our government and did our duty. That's all. Today, I am trying to show that same obedience to the cause of Christ.

  Dick Fischer

  Dick Fischer, Genesis Proclaimed Association

  Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History

  www.genesisproclaimed.org

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Iain Strachan [mailto:igd.strachan@gmail.com]
  Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 4:57 AM
  To: Dick Fischer
  Subject: Re: [asa] AIG -- Scientists! Give it up! - private

  Dear Dick,

  I don't see your point (concerning Churchill).

  I'm sorry if reminding you of the horrors of the Viet Nam war offended you. As I've said publicly I accept that war is a necessary evil. I'll make no comment on the rightness or wrongness of that particular conflict - I'm sure you personally honestly thought what you were doing was right, so I've no right to judge you. But your repeated bragging about it after the event is pretty irritating.

  But you have to accept that some of us on the list aren't Americans, and don't necessarily hold the same views as yourself about US policy, and when you start boasting about your own war record in the same discussion as making comments about "stomping over the charlatans", then you must expect to get challenged. Chuck Vandergraaf (who is Canadian) wrote off-list to me saying he didn't feel welcome on the list because of your comments about Viet Nam.

  Would you prefer it if the list were for Americans only?

  Iain

  On 7/27/06, Dick Fischer <dickfischer@verizon.net > wrote:

  Dear Iain:

  I wonder what words or graphics Winston Churchill would have summoned up to describe Americans who bore arms.

  Dick Fischer

  Dick Fischer , Genesis Proclaimed Association

  Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History

  www.genesisproclaimed.org

  -----Original Message-----
  From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Janice Matchett
  Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 12:03 PM
  To: ASA
  Subject: [asa] AIG -- Scientists! Give it up!

  At 06:20 PM 7/26/2006, Iain Strachan wrote:

  PS .. this is for Dick, as I'm bowing out of this thread, thoroughly sickened by the whole business. You and Vernon are as bad as each other.

  Dick, on more than one occasion you've told us proudly of the combat missions you flew over Vietnam, on the last case even going as far as to enumerate them. Well, I've no doubt it was very brave and patriotic, but rather than words, I leave the following famous picture - I still remember vividly the day it was published in the UK papers, when I was 14. It has of course since become iconic of the evils of war. It sums up more eloquently than any words that I could write, what I wish to say to you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:TrangBang.jpg

  Iain

  @ Have you ever seen this published in the UK papers? http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionimages/aborted01-24.jpg

  Probably not.

  And if you had, I just bet you would have hastened in speechless outrage to link us to this "victim" ---- right? :)

  Richard John Neuhaus: "...For the first time in years, the media have not been going on about the dangerous "religious right." Perhaps because the assumption is that [you know who] embodies the danger. Newsweek ran a long cover story on his faith, revealing, inter alia, his creepy habit of getting up early in the morning to pray and read the Bible. The story was accompanied by a column that condescendingly chided [you know who] for his "God talk" and helpfully reminded him that "self-examination and repentant action are critical components of any faith." .. Among many protesting U.S. policy, including the religiously credentialed, the theme that [you know who] is a religious fanatic who thinks he has a monopoly on knowing God's purposes vied with the warning that he is a Texas cowboy set upon proving his manhood, regardless of the consequences for others.

  "...I pointed out that the record of the U.S. in combating tyranny, defending freedom, providing humanitarian aid, motoring economic development, and securing a modicum of world order compares very favorably with the record of, for instance, Germany, France, Russia, or Italy. Yes, it was said in response, but you can't expect Europeans to be grateful forever for what the U.S. did in two World Wars and the Cold War. In effect: What have you done for us lately? ...

  "...Christian America before the Civil War was in many ways two Christian Americas, the North and the South, and the tragic fact is that the great question of slavery was not resolved by Christian theology or moral argument but by an unspeakably bloody resort to arms, thereby discrediting, in the eyes of many, the idea of Christian America. ... More: http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0305/public.html

  ~ Janice .... linking to even more eloquent words of reality below - but only for those emotionally mature enough to handle them:

  http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1648303/posts

  http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1669866/posts

  http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1603051/posts?page=13#13

  --
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  After the game, the King and the pawn go back in the same box.

  - Italian Proverb
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Received on Fri Jul 28 13:38:36 2006