Re: [asa] Orthodox Theologian Speaks on Modern Deserts

On 7/19/06, RFaussette@aol.com <RFaussette@aol.com> wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/19/2006 12:02:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> rich.blinne@gmail.com writes:
>
> So, yes we should submit and surrender to God but is it the core of
> Chrisitianity? No as it doesn't even show up in the list of the fruit of the
> Spirit in Galations but there's that pesky word love again.
>
> Yes, the self sacrifice which is love/surrender/submission to God is the
> core of personal religion and Christianity.
> The (self) sacrifice of the Cross is the essential element of
> Christianity. I believe we find it in each of the synoptics.
>
> We are arguing because I prefer submission/sacrifice rather than love to
> express man's relationship with God. I'm pragmatic and don't believe love is
> an effective descriptor. If it were, churches would have more men in them.
> The self sacrifice is a challenge which men might respond to. They haven't
> responded to "love."
>
> Love is surrender.
>

Pragmatically, there is a problem because God not only commands us to love
Him (where surrender would be a good description because it is a love of an
inferior to a superior) but also other people where it has problems. You use
the word self-sacrifice a lot if you used that instead rather than
submission or surrender I think we would be closer to each other.

Blaming the lack of male attendance on churches not appealing to
self-sacrifice is pretty lame. The Bible gives a different indictment,
unbelief. The passage in Romans you quoted earlier is in the context the
lack of submission by the Jews was because of unbelief, not failing to be be
challenged to self-sacrifice as they were zealous for the law. That being
said, if the churches are not presenting Christ's self-sacrifice constantly
then you have a point but that's not challenging men to self-sacrifice but
proclaiming God's love to them through Christ's sacrifice. As Paul put it:

6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died
for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though
for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his
own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

If we need any additional motivation beyond this the truth is not in us and
attracting men that need such motivation would destroy the church.

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Received on Wed Jul 19 13:01:46 2006