Re: [asa] Re: Slug

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:37:30 +0800 "Glenn Morton"
<glennmorton@entouch.net> writes:
> David S. wrote:
>
> > and I noted that the scablands did not involve a 3000' head
> > or an entire ocean as source.
>
>
> That was after you told me that if the depth of the Gibaltar lip was
> 300
> feet today it had to be 300 feet when the Mediterranean infilled,
> which was
> 5 million years ago and Africa was much farther from Europe then
> than it is
> today and the entire topography was different..
>
> The Scablands, didn't have any chance to be a 3000 foot wall of
> water, it
> was on the other side of the world, caused by something entirely
> different
> and so I really have trouble seeing the relevance to the collapse of
> the
> Betic Dam in Spain (most likely) which caused the infilling of the
> Med. No
> one really knows the speed of the water that created the Scablands.
>
>
> Also that the flow over Niagara
> > Falls, with less than 10 m of depth, is 68 kmh.
>
> It is 40 km/h, 25 mph. Now, I suspect you are trying to say that I
> have too
> slow a speed. One must realize that the 25 mph of Niagara is the
> maximum
> speed of the falls, not the AVERAGE speed of the falls. To calculate
> the
> time it takes to infill a basin requires an average speed, not a
> maximum
> speed.
>
>
> The flow at
> > Gibraltar now, in a channel at least 300 m deep, driven by
> > evaporation and wind, along with the flow of dense water
> > along the bottom, is up to at least 6 knots at times.
>
> Oh wow, 8 mph, but that is a spike speed for a small area. What is
> the
> average speed my friend?
>
>
> Is there a chance that you might admit that you were wrong on this
> and that
> the present Gibraltar is irrelevant to the infilling of the
> Mediterranean 5
> myr ago?
>
>
> The fact that this was found in the Betic of Spain may indicate that
> that
> was where the dam broke. If it broke there, it had to break at least
> 1000 m
> deep. (I fell confident you will ignore all this and act as if this
> data
> doesn't exist and then charge me with ignoring data).
>
> And another:
>
> "The Gibraltar dam must have collapsed catastrophically. Salt
> water
> from the 'bathyal realm' of the Atlantic had inundated the
> Mediterranean
> desert at the pace of thousands of Niagara Falls. In the process
> the raging
> torrent had eroded the former barrier, incising the breach to
> perhaps one
> thousand feet below the level of the inrushing Atlantic. Such a
> deep
> opening was considered necessary to siphon in the blind crustaceans
> from the
> abyss of the North Atlantic and deliver them, enveloped in salt
> water no
> warmer than 40 degrees Fahrenheit, to the rapidly filling basins of
> the
> Mediterranean. Had the portal not been wide open, Benson argued,
> an
> entirely different set of tiny crustaceans would have been found in
> the
> Glomar Challenger cores.
> ~ William Ryan and Walter Pitman, Noah's Flood, (New York: Simon
> and
> Schuster, 1998), p. 91-92
>
> Why do you reject what everyone who has studied the Mediterranean
> infilling
> says? I merely repeat it and you don't like it because it doesn't
> agree
> with what you want to be the case, and what you want to be the case
> is me
> wrong.
>
I have no problem admitting that I did not know that the break that
filled the Mediterranean was not at the current strait. But why will you
insist on a 1000 m deep break when even what you quote indicates 1000
feet? I will grant that, with the Mediterranean basin nearly full, the
flow could have slowed to 15 mph. Will you recognize that a 1000-foot
head of water must flow faster? If a terrorist were to blow up Hoover
Dam, would the flow be no more than 15 mph? Would an ocean rather than a
lake influence the flow?

You try to correct my figure for the flow at Niagara. The river above the
falls flows at 40 km/hr, faster below the falls. Both places there is
water behind pushing and water before holding the flow back. At the edge
of the falls the velocity is 68 km/hr with the water less than 10 m deep.
That's because there is nothing pushing back. Were the head greater,
would the speed of the flow be affected?

And yes, I want you wrong. To that end I have pointed out that some of
the objections you make to a Mesopotamian flood apply to your
Mediterranean flood, with perhaps a little longer walk. But neither of us
has proved a contradiction in the opposing views. It's probably time to
desist.
Dave
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Received on Mon Jun 19 14:50:10 2006