Re: questions about the descent of man

From: <glennmorton@entouch.net>
Date: Fri Jun 02 2006 - 19:13:20 EDT


I am going to do my usual contrarian thing. I wasn't going to reply to this thread, but the mention of this book makes me do it. This book is pure sophistry and twising of facts on the level of YECs.   Here is one of the things they say which is so ludicrous as to make me cry that this nonsense is being taught.

 

“RTB's biblical creation model considers the hominids found in the fossil record to be animals created by God's direct intervention for His purposes. They existed for a time, then went extinct. These remarkable creatures walked erect They also possessed limited intelligence and emotional capac­ity. Such characteristics allowed them to employ crude tools and even adopt a low level of "culture," much as baboons, gorillas, and chimpanzees do. But while the hominids were created by God's command, they were not spiritual beings made in His image. This status was reserved for human beings.”

“Furthermore, the RTB model treats hominids as analogous to, yet distinct from, the great apes. For this reason, the model predicts that anatomical, physiological, biochemical, and genetic similarities existed among homi­nids and human beings to varying degrees. But because the hominids were not made in God's image, they are expected to be noticeably different from humans, as reflected by their cognitive and communicative capacities, behavior,"technology," and "culture."”

“The RTB model maintains that while human beings reflect God's image in their activities,hominids did not. The model asserts that humans are uniquely spiritual and hominids were not. The archeological record associated with hominid fossils supplies key data to evaluate this prediction.” Fazale Rana and Hugh Ross, Who Was Adam?, (Colorado Springs: NavPress, 2005), p.50

 

Those hominid animals were the first to the following things. references available at http://home.entouch.net/dmd/chron.htm

 

35 kyr       fossil collecting               Arcy-sur-Cure            Homo sapiens neanderthalensis47
35 kyr       oldest star chart               Germany                  ?177
35 kyr       European cave painting          Fumane Cave Italy        ?142
36 kyr       bitumen glue                    Umm el Tlel, Syria       ?48
36 kyr       Neandertal necklace             Arcy-sur-Cure, France    Homo sapiens neanderthalensis155
39 kyr       cave painting                   Carpenter's Gap Austral. Archaic Homo sapiens49
43-67 kyr  7 note diatonic musical scale   Divje Babe I, Slovenia   Homo sapiens neanderthalensis 50,51
45 kyr       Neanderthal flute               Divje Babe I, Slovenia   Homo sapiens neanderthalensis51
47 kyr  successful surgical amputation Shanidar, Iraq           Homo sapiens neanderthalensis52
47 kyr       spelunking in dark cave         Bruniquel, France        Homo sapiens neanderthalensis154
50 kyr       shaman's cape                   Hortus, France           Homo sapiens neanderthalensis53
53 kyr       Oldest flued hearth             Capellades, Spain        Homo sapiens neanderthalensis124
60 kyr       Neanderthal hut/tent            Molodova, Russia         Homo sapiens neanderthalensis54
68 kyr       Murder by spear                 Shanidar, Iraq           Homo sapiens neanderthalensis55
70 kyr       European Rock art               La Ferrassie, France     Homo sapiens neanderthalensis188
70-80 kyr  Neanderthal art, pseudoVenus    Wildenmannlisloch, Switz.Homo sapiens neanderthalensis56
70-80 kyr  musical instrument-flute        Haua Fteah, Libya        Homo sapiens neanderthalensis57
73 kyr       use of coal for fire            Les Canalettes           Homo sapiens neanderthalensis58
80 kyr       First fingerprint               Konigsaue, Germany       Homo sapiens Neanderthalensis59
80 kyr       anoxic chemistry--birch glue    Konigsaue, Germany       Homo sapiens Neanderthalensis59
80 kyr       Neanderthal bone tool           Regourdou, France        Homo sapiens neanderthalensis61
80 kyr       religious sanctuary             Drachenloch, Switzerland Homo sapiens neanderthalensis62
90-100 kyr   whistles                        Prolom II, Crimea        archaic Homo sapiens63
110 kyr      underground mining              Lion Cave, Swaziland     ?64
110-130kyr   Neanderthal spear               Lehringen, Germany       Homo sapiens neanderthalensis65
120 kyr      2nd oldest H. sapiens footprint Langebaan, S.A           Homo sapiens141
130 kyr      burial                          Krapina, Croatia         Homo sapiens neanderthalensis66
130 kyr      food processors                 various                  archaic Homo sapiens67
140 kyr      over-horizon sailing            Australia                archaic Homo sapiens68
140 kyr      Shellfish exploitation          Italy                    Homo sapiens neanderthalensis69
160 kyr      European blade tools            England Belgium          Homo sapiens neanderthalensis70
200 kyr      Oldest Ostrich Shell Beads      el Greifa E              archaic Homo sapiens186
200 kyr      post hole                       Lunel-Viel               archaic Homo sapiens71
200 kyr      Neanderthal bedding             Lazaret, France          Homo sapiens neanderthalensis72
200 kyr      Neandertal living floor         Grotte d'Aldene          Homo sapiens neanderthalensis73
230 kyr      human dung                      Terra Amata, France      Homo erectus?74
240 kyr      upper Paleolithic blade tools   Kenya                    ?75
240-700kyr   woodworking                     Gesher Benot Ya'aqov,Isr.Homo erectus76
250 kyr      Invention of Mousterian tools   Vaufry Cave, France      ?77
300 kyr      geometric engraving             Pech de l'Aze            Homo erectus78
300 kyr      Siberia peopled-clothing needed Diring Yuriakh           ?79
300 kyr      jewelry                         various                  Homo erectus80
>300 kyr     ritual corpse disposal          Atapuerca, Spain         archaic H.s.81
330 kyr      Depiction of human form         Berekhat Ram, Israel     Homo erectus/archaic H.s82
>350 kyr     stone wall                      Bhimbetka, India         archaic H.s/Homo erectus83
>350 kyr     Oldest rock engraving           Bhimbetka, India         a.H.s/Homo erectus138
350 kyr      Oldest grave goods              Atapuerca, Spain         a. Homo sapiens172
350 kyr      Oldest footprint of genus Homo  Italy                    a. Homo sapiens179
355 kyr      Oldest human footprints         Roccamonfina, Italy      archaic H.sapiens 170
3-400 kyr    European huts                   Bilzingsleben, Germany   Homo erectus84
3-400 kyr    paved social area               Bilzingsleben, Germany   Homo erectus85
3-400 kyr    oldest evidence of counting     Bilzingsleben, Germany   Homo erectus86
3-400 kyr    oldest religious altar          Bilzingsleben, Germany   Homo erectus87
3-500kyr     third oldest art                Tan-Tan, Morocco         a.Homo sapiens180
3-500 kyr    oldest evidence of coloring     Tan-Tan, Morocco         a.Homo sapiens187
400 kyr      wooden spear                    Schoningen, Germany      Homo erectus88
400 kyr      3 component composite tools     Schoningen, Germany      Homo erectus89
400 kyr      tools made by other tools       Schoningen, Germany      Homo erectus90
400 kyr      wooden boomerang                Schoningen, Germany      Homo erectus91
465 kyr      500 degree C fire               Menez-Dregan, France     Homo erectus165
500 kyr      case of syphilis                Tangshan, China          Homo erecuts146
500 kyr      mineral collection              Zhoukoudian, China       Homo erectus92
500 kyr      man and canine assoc.           Zhoukoudian, China       Homo erectus93
500 kyr      Asian fire                      Zhoukoudian, China       Homo erectus94
600 kyr      scalping                        Bodo, Ethiopia           Homo erectus95
600 kyr      oldest Britain inhabitant       Sussex, England          Homo erectus152
700 kyr      ocean travel                    Flores, Indonesia        Homo erectus96
750 kyr      European fire                   Escale Cave, France      Homo erectus97
780 kyr      nut cracking and nut crackers   Gesher Benot Ya'aqov,Isr.Homo erectus158
800 kyr      Asian hand ax                   Renzidong, China         Homo erectus121
800 kyr      Oldest home base                Gesher Benot Ya'aqov,Isr.Homo erectus159
8-900kyr     H erectus bedding               Wonderwork Cave, S. A.   Homo erectus98
970 kyr      European structure              Soleihac Cave            Homo erectus?99
1.0 MYR      tanning hides                   Swartkrans, South Africa Homo erectus100
1.0 MYR      Oldest habitation of India      Isampur, India           Homo erectus150
1.0 MYR      Oldest European                 Guadix-Baza, Spain       Homo erectus151
1.0 MYR      possible oldest nutcracking     Olduvai Gorge, Tanzania  Homo erectus159
1.2-1.4 MYR  2nd Oldest art/symbolism        Kozarnika, Bulgaria      Homo erectus185
1.36 MYR     Asia north of 40o Lat.occupied  Nihewan Basin, China     Homo erectus123
1.4 MYR      ritual dismemberment of Human   Sterkfontein, S. Africa  Homo erectus139
1.4 MYR      oldest Acheulian hand axe       WestNatron, Tanzania     Homo erectus160
1.5 MYR      evidence of fire                Swartkrans South Africa  H. erectus A.robustus102
1.5 MYR      woodworking                     Koobi Fora, Kenya        Homo erectus103
1.6 MYR      oldest representational art     Olduvai Gorge            Homo erectus?104
1.6 MYR      480 degree C fire               Olduvai Gorge            Homo erectus167
1.6 MYR      working with animal hides       Swartkrans, S. A.        A. robustus105
1.6 MYR      bone tool               

Yet Ross and Rana say all this is done by animals. And inspite of the data above, they make this bold faced, false assertion.

“Although the fossils possess some features in common with modem human anatomy, they also display features not typically seen in people. The skull walls of these specimens are thicker than those observed for human beings. Their faces are broader and the areas above the eye sockets are much thicker. Based on anatomy alone, these hominids appear to be distinct from modem humans and could be thought of as nonhuman, bipedal primates that predated humankind.”

“The archeological record supports this categorization. Artifacts asso­ciated with the fossils recovered in Israel, eastern Africa, and southern Africa indicate distinctly nonhuman behavior. These animals used unsophisticated tools and engaged in crude hunting and gathering. They didn't paint pictures or play music or display any other signs of creativity. (See chapters 2, 11, and 12 for a more detailed discussion of the arche­ological record and its correlation with the hominid fossil record.) For now, the first unequivocal appearance of human beings in the fossil record occurred around 40,000 years ago.” Fazale Rana and Hugh Ross, Who Was Adam?, (Colorado Springs: NavPress, 2005), p. 80

 

It is utterly false what I have bolded. And the thickest skull on record is that of a Viking who lived in Iceland in about 900 AD. Someone hit him with an ax in the head, and it didn't break the skull.

 

And they make the amazing assertion that fishing is related to the Image of God:

 

“The hunting practices of the first humans also showed greater sophistica­tion than those of Middle Stone Age hominids (as seen at sites in southern Africa).21 First, the animal remains from these Late Stone Age sites are much more diverse than those collected from Middle Stone Age locales. Late Stone Age sites contain many more fish and fowl skeletons. Fish gorges and net sinkers also have been found in Late Stone Age digs. The design, manufacture, and use of these implements required sophisticated cognitive capacity..” Fazale Rana and Hugh Ross, Who Was Adam?, (Colorado Springs: NavPress, 2005), p. 85

They seem unaware that Tasmanians made the same crude tools that they say are indicative of being non-human. They seem unaware that the Tasmanians also didn't fish. They seem unaware that Tasmanian technology was so poor that it was actually compared with Chimpanzee tool making abilities.  By Rana and Ross' criteria, Tasmanians are not human.  I think they are.




** Reply Requested When Convenient **

Another resource from a more conservative perspective is:


Who Was Adam? [B0501]
A Creation Model Approach to the Origin of Man

by Rana and Ross, 2005



Pattle.P.T.Pun, Ph.D.
Professor of Biology,
Wheaton College,
Wheaton, IL 60187
phone: 630-752-5303
fax: 630-752-5996
email: pattle.p.pun@wheaton.edu
http://www.wheaton.edu/Biology/faculty/ppp/web/index.html

>>> "Travis Marler" <tmarler@hotmail.com> 6/1/2006 12:23 PM >>>
Thank you for your reply, Keith, as well as Moorad and David. I will
definintely look into the books mentioned!

Travis

Received on Fri Jun 2 19:14:35 2006

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