Re: No!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carol or John Burgeson" <burgytwo@juno.com>
To: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: No!

> George wrote: "But if it is the case that homosexual activity is a
> consequence of a
> failure to acknowledge God, as Paul argues, then it would seem reasonable
> to
> ask if having a condition which inclines one to such activity does not
> also
> have some connection with such a failure."
>
> I am stepping way over what I understand here, but let me try a simple
> minded question.
>
> For the question, assume that all homosexual activity is, ipso facto,
> "sin."
>
> My daughter is a lesbian.
>
> I read you, then, to say that her current status, married to a female
> partner, is in some way connected with the failure of one or more of her
> many times great grandparents "to acknowledge God."
>
> Or maybe you are only saying that the possibility is "reasonable."
>
> Or maybe I am simply misreading you.
>
> Help me out here, George.

Burgy -

1st, note the qualifications in my statement: ""But IF it is the case that
homosexual activity is a
consequence of a failure to acknowledge God, as Paul argues, then IT WOULD
SEEM REASONABLE
to ask if having a condition which inclines one to such activity does not
also have SOME connection with such a failure."

I am not trying to be coy here. I have some of the same questions you do &
only some tentative approaches to answers.

2d, your posing of the question in terms of "many times great grandparents"
raises a point that I've wondered about & think have mentioned here. When
people appeal to Romans 1:18 -23 in support of the ideas of a natural
knowledge of God & natural theology, the assumption is often made that the
people who "knew God ... but did not honor him as God" are unbelievers
_today_. & this would mean that someone like Steven Weinberg in some sense
really does "know God" but then suppresses or denies that knowledge. I have
enough respect for the intellectual integrity of such people to find that a
little hard to believe. This makes me wonder if Paul has in mind there not
his contemporaries (or ours) but people of the past, & in particular Adam &
Eve. This is at least suggested by the past tense (which in English
translates the aorists, /gnontes/ & /edoxasan/).

That wanders a bit from the topic but it's something that needs to be
considered.

3d, if I were to drop the qualifications I noted & argue for the position I
suggested I'd do it with the type of scenario I described in my recent PSCF
paper "Roads to Paradise and Perdition ..." . I think that the sinful
condition of humanity is best understood as a matter of humanity getting off
the path God intended for it rather than as a single abrupt "fall" with
catastrophic consequences. Both our genetic backgrounds & the cultures we
have developed contribute to the state of alienation from God in which we're
all born. If, as my original argument implies, homosexual orientation is
not part of God's intention for humanity then the conditions that lead to it
are part of that mix.

4th, while it now seems pretty well established that some persons do have
what I've called "non-volitional homosexual orientations," we really don't
know what causes that condition. It may be something hereditary - which is
not identical with "genetic." But there may not be any one size fits all
answer. I know of a woman who"became a lesbian" (& I know that phrase can
be debated) after being gang raped. The case is, I'm sure, not unique.
This is not something she was born with. Her orientation is psychological
and "culturally" conditioned.

& since I don't know your daughter, I'm even less able to say anything about
specific causes of her orientation - even if that were my field, which it
isn't.

5th, I'm been discussing the general question as a theologian. I try to
deal with individual situations pastorally - which doesn't mean dropping all
theological concerns. I think the church needs to accept the reality of
non-volitional homosexual orientation & find some responsible way to
recognize same-sex unions (not marraige) to help people with such
orientations deal with their conditions. OTOH I see no compelling reason
for the church to ordain non-celibate homosexuals - thus enraging people on
both right & left.

Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
Received on Fri Jun 2 09:53:26 2006