Re: Dembski theodicy

Is the redemption of Man, and the re-establishment of a proper relationship between Man and God, and Man and creation enough? Or has Man caused such a serious flaw in creation that the entire physical universe needs to be reborn?

And if that is the case, what is it about creation that is present now, was not present before the fall of Man?

There is no question that we are poor stewards of creation. I just dont see that there has been any significant change in the physical realm that was the result of the fall of Man. And the restoration of Man is not going to change any of those "natural evils" in creation.

What does the Bible say specifically about changes in the natural world that was the result of the fall of Man? Just, increased pain in childbirth, snakes would have to slither on the ground, and Man would have to work hard to get the ground to produce. That is it. Earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunami, plant and animal death, entropy, all existed prior to Man's existence, and Man's fall, and will continue after Man's redemption.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Keith Miller
  To: American Scientific Affiliation
  Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 10:38 PM
  Subject: Re: Dembski theodicy

    So there is no reason to think that "creation" meaning the physical universe is waiting to be "liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God."

  The Creation is affected by human sin because of the breaking of our proper relationship to it as God's representatives and stewards. While the lordship of humanity over creation continues despite our fallen-ness, that lordship is now expressed in self-interested exploitation and the exercise of subjugating power. Just as with our other relationships to God and other humans, our relationship to Creation is characterized by brokenness, selfishness, and destruction. The Creation is indeed groaning and looking to the restoration of our redemption.

  What does it mean for creation to be in bondage to decay? Given other passages in scripture (eg. Psalm 104:27-30), it does not seem that it refers to simply the physical process of death. The concepts of death and life used in scripture seem to pretty consistently refer to something much more profound. Our life and death is often explicitly detached from our current physical life and death. Though we die yet shall we live. Though we live we are really dead. Are we not freed from the "bondage of death" through the redemption that lies in Christ even though our current life in this body will end? Could this not mean that Creation will also be freed from a bondage that has resulted from its estrangement from its appointed stewards?

  Keith

  Keith B. Miller
  Research Assistant Professor
  Dept of Geology, Kansas State University
  Manhattan, KS 66506-3201
  785-532-2250
  http://www-personal.ksu.edu/~kbmill/
Received on Thu May 11 23:29:02 2006