Re: ID and YEC in Switzerland and "Thousands not Billions"

Correction - I see that the reference was to volume 2 of the RATE book. Volume 1 is the one on the web. My mistake. My other comments still apply.

Brent

---- Brent Foster <bdffoster@charter.net> wrote:

=============
The Vardiman book is available on the web
http://www.icr.org/pdf/research/rate-all.pdf
It's actually 676 pages instead of 876. From what I've read of it, it's just the same old garbage. It seems to be a thorough compilation of all the YEC objections to radiometric dating all in one place. On one hand convienient to have it all in one place, on the other hand who's going to waste their time reading 676 pages of garbage. Well, I probably will eventually (it's about 20% references). But it's ridiculous to say that if you havn't read this book you can't be well informed on the latest YEC claims and "research" in this area. I think it's fair to ask this person what specific new information or research is in the book that is relevant. Scince he's read the book he must know of something in it that isn't just SOS (same old stuff).

Brent

---- Peter Ruest <pruest@mysunrise.ch> wrote:

=============
Thanks, Dave and Chuck, for these informations about the Oklo reactor. I had
read A.P.Meshik, Sci.Amer. 293 (5), 56-63 (2005) and reread it now, but forgot
to mention it in my preliminary remarks to the YEC. But I didn't know about the
Nd and Ru data. Of course it's exactly as you say: the YECs claim half lives are
not constant, in particular, they postulate two periods of accelerated decay,
one during the creation week (their compressed Precambrian) and one during
Noah's flood (their compressed Paleozoic-Mesozoic). Make the data fit your theory!

Peter

Tjalle T Vandergraaf wrote:
> In addition to what Dave wrote, there is the evidence of anomalous
> isotope ratio of such elements as Nd and Ru. The Nd isotope ratio found
> at Oklo is a weighted average of that of naturally occurring Nd and Nd
> produced as a result of fission of U-235. Similarly, there is a much
> higher percentage of Ru-99. This is due to the decay of Tc-99 which has
> a half life of about 200 000 years.
>
> The only argument that YECs can present, as far as I can determine, is
> that half lives are not constant. However, there is no evidence that
> this is the case.
>
> Chuck
>
> *From:* asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]
> *On Behalf Of *D. F. Siemens, Jr.
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 06, 2006 3:55 PM
> *To:* pruest@mysunrise.ch
> *Cc:* asa@calvin.edu
> *Subject:* Re: ID and YEC in Switzerland and "Thousands not Billions"
>
> On Sat, 06 May 2006 19:44:21 +0200 Peter Ruest <pruest@mysunrise.ch
> <mailto:pruest@mysunrise.ch>> writes: ...

(Dave:)
> A straightforward proof (to all but YEC) is the Oklo reactor in Gabon.
> The story I got is contained in two articles: George A.Cowan, "A
> Natural Fission Reactor," Scientific American (July 1976) 36-47; Alex P.
> Meshak, "The Workings of an Ancient Nuclear Reactor," ibid. (November
> 2005) 82-91. The latter article spells out the requirements for a
> reactor. It// //had to have occurred over 1,700,000,000 years ago. See
> the table for the time when the percentage of U-235 in uranium was
> greater than the 3% required.
>
> Someplace in the technical literature there has to be the additional
> evidence of the Pu and fission products produced. Combining this Oklo
> data with the geological stratum where it occurred should be adequate
> evidence that the half-lives are, apart from nearly unique situtions,
> unchanging, so that the earth must be old.
>
> The Oklo reactor pins down the radio-dating very thoroughly, though I do
> not doubt that there are YEC lies on the topic. It was reading the
> literature on dating before Oklo turned up that convinced me that the
> largest correction could be a factor of 2 or 3, not the 3 to 6 orders of
> magnitude required for a young earth.
>
> Dave
>
> Percentage of U235 in the Past
> Million years ago Percentage
> ...

-- 
Dr. Peter Ruest, CH-3148 Lanzenhaeusern, Switzerland
<pruest@dplanet.ch> - Biochemistry - Creation and evolution
"... the work which God created to evolve it" (Genesis 2:3)
"... my sons... and my daughters..., everyone..., whom I
created... formed... evolved." (Isaiah 43:6-7)