Re: OT Relevance

The question about faith & works is sometimes posed as "Are good works
necessary?" But we have to ask "Necessary for what?" They are not needed
in order for God to save us. They are needed for the welfare of our
neighbor & the world.

Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Schneider" <rjschn39@bellsouth.net>
To: "Debbie Mann" <deborahjmann@insightbb.com>; "Asa" <asa@lists.calvin.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: OT Relevance

> Debbie,
>
> To your list of quotations from the NT, I would add Ephesians 2:8-10:
>
> "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your
> own doing; it is the gift of God--not the result of works, so that no one
> may boast. For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for
> good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life."
>
> I can't tell you how often people have quoted Eph. 2:8-9 to me and left
> off v. 10. Yet, 10 is the essential consequence of 8-9: the way of life
> of good works that flows from being created in Christ, clothed with Christ
> (as Paul says in Galatians), which God intended for us even before the
> time of grace. I have pointed this out over the years to my students who
> had been taught to believe that good works = "works righteousness" (and
> worse, something that Catholics do), and treat doing good works as if it
> were something radioactive. I am happy to see that this attitude has
> diminished considerably in recent years, but unfortunately it's still
> around.
>
> Bob
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Debbie Mann" <deborahjmann@insightbb.com>
> To: "Asa" <asa@lists.calvin.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:37 AM
> Subject: OT Relevance
>
>
>> In reply to Mr. Siemens:
>>
>> Had to look up antinomian. No, I am not antinomian.
>>
>> I write a devotional for an e-mail list of family and friends. I start
>> with
>> a word and a concordance and find a theme from there. It seems that with
>> almost every word, the message is balance. Yes, we are saved by grace.
>> But,
>> there is obligation tied to that free gift. The following are from the
>> New
>> International Version. I really like the Bible Gateway website.
>>
>> Romans 1:5
>> Through him and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to
>> call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from
>> faith.
>>
>> Romans 6:15
>> [ Slaves to Righteousness ] What then? Shall we sin because we are not
>> under
>> law but under grace? By no means!
>>
>> Hebrews 10:29
>> How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has
>> trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing
>> the
>> blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the
>> Spirit
>> of grace?
>>
>> James 4:6
>> But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: "God opposes the
>> proud but gives grace to the humble."
>>
>> 1 Peter 5:10
>> And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ,
>> after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make
>> you strong, firm and steadfast.
>>
>> In my devotional , I string together a bunch of verses, commenting on
>> each
>> one. I figure you can comment at least as well as I can.
>>
>> You can't get tone from e-mail, so let me define it. I am not angry, but
>> pleading to be understood. I am disturbed that so many scientists and
>> even
>> Ehrman have left Christianity. I spend hours a week, cumulated over many
>> years, in study of the Bible. I also spend significant time in reading
>> science books. I have them in my car, on my coffee table, at my office.
>> Lisa
>> Randall's recent book is one of them. I believe science. The Bible is
>> foundational to me. There is an issue there. I haven't defined the issue,
>> but it has placed a question in my soul. I am trying to find the question
>> as
>> well as the answer.
>>
>> I hesitate to give out these 'where I'm coming from descriptions'. My
>> husband equates them with the chick-flick mentality. He values expression
>> of
>> sentiment in three words or less. 'I love you' is about as long as it
>> gets.
>>
>> Back to the point:
>>
>> How can you take the OT literally? Not to be misunderstood - How can you,
>> Mr. Siemens, participator on a list who generally find YEC's to be a
>> disturbing lot, defender of science, take the OT literally? If you do
>> take
>> the OT literally, then why is my question about the Minoans offensive? It
>> is
>> a serious question. I've had a string of serious questions that seem to
>> have
>> offended all, but I don't see how they are unreasonable:
>>
>> If the Old Testament is be believed at all, then God in some way, whether
>> directly or by his permissive will, allowed the disobedient to be
>> punished
>> by their actions up to the time of Christ. This punishment was directly
>> related to their actions and directly turned around by miraculous or at
>> least dramatic intervention as soon as they repented. If there is one
>> message in the Old Testament it is that God is God and he is in charge
>> and
>> that man should take note.
>>
>> The grace of the New Testament frees us from this dramatic cause and
>> effect?
>> As of the resurrection of Jesus, do we just get natural cause and effect
>> without the direct link between our errors and devastation or our
>> repentance
>> and protection from devastation?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Received on Wed Mar 29 10:34:04 2006