Re: Are there things that don't evolve?

There are changes that are not evolutionary. For example, the rusting of
iron from Fe to Fe(OH)2 to FeO to Fe2O3 is not evolutionary. The change
has to be transmitted, from parent to offspring organically, or from
person and/or culture to another. That's why language can properly be
said to evolve. The Latin /flora/ becomes the Italian /fiore/ and the
Spanish /flor/, and with greater change, our "flower." But I note that
drawing exact boundaries between changes which are evolutionary and those
that aren't will not be a simple task--or exact except by fiat.

Do ethics evolve? They have to, for conditions change. There was no need
of rules for traffic lights before there were traffic lights. Generally,
horses have the good sense not to bump into things, but not enough not to
shy. Do ethical principles change? Ideally, no, which is where God
doesn't change his mind. But when we are talking of human society, the
principles do change among various societies. But there is a problem of
interpretation here. "Thou shalt not murder" is pretty basic.
Nevertheless, a couple centuries back a person arriving in parts of
Polynesia, instead of being the guest of honor was the piece de
resistance. One party says this is because the prohibition of murder is
not universal. Another claims that "person" applied only to members of
the tribe, not to strangers. I know of no argument which will convince
either holder of the other's view.

If there is a distinction which is vital in a context, the best action is
to set out a restricted definition: In this paper the term "xxx" shall
mean ... Unfortunately, when this is done, the general notion often
intrudes. I recall a commentator who complained privately, "He uses ...
in seven different senses in the first two pages." To require a
specification for general usage is a futile and foolish endeavor.
Dave

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:43:56 -0500 (EST) Gregory Arago
<gregoryarago@yahoo.ca> writes:
David O.'s comment has furthered me thinking about the
difference/similarity between evolution and change. Are they synonymous
or not? If everything changes, then everything evolves. God doesn't
change, but God does change - this is why some people here have recently
said that the ethics in the Bible are examples of evolution; ethics
evolve/change.

In any case, from the 'downward evolution' thread, the recent post of
Jack seems to use the two words 'change' and 'evolve' or 'change' and
'evolution' interchangeably. So, below I've taken the liberty to add to
Jack's post the other word in brackets, hoping that perhaps it will
prompt someone to help distinguish between change and evolution. Again,
the purpose is still to discover if there are 'things that don't evolve'.

Arago

~~
"Viruses, are usually treated with immunization, and viruses evolve
[change] all of the! time, and change [evolve] their antigenicity, which
is why we need a flu shot every year." ... "But this change [evolution]
in antigenicity is not the same thing as bacterial antibiotic resistance.
 Antibiotic resistance comes about because of selection pressure, the
bacteria that are resistant survive, and
reproduce. Eventually the population of the resistant bacteria becomes
large
enough to be clinically significant." ..." Viruses change [evolve] their
antigenicity randomly, and are not subject to selection pressure in the
same way." ... "As far as modern medicine and its effects on human
evolution [change], this is something that we will not know if there is
any effect for thousands of years. In fact the only effect I see is that
modern medicine removes selection pressure, so puts human evolution
[change] in stasis, I dont think we will "devolve" [change for the
worse?] because of modern medicine."

"perhaps you can say everything "evolves" if! by "evolves" you just mean
"changes." Even here I think we'd have to exclude God from this, unless
one wants to! endorse open theism. But if we use "evolves" that broadly,
it doesn't seem to be a meaningful term anymore." - David Opderbeck

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Received on Sat Mar 25 22:58:34 2006