Re: Is the human race with modern medecine not evolving downward?

Sorry to be too picky, but "super bugs" in general are bacteria that become
resistant to antibiotics, such as MRSA, not viruses. Viruses, are usually
treated with immunization, and viruses evolve all of the time, and change
their antigenicity, which is why we need a flu shot every year.

But this change in antigenicity is not the same thing as bacterial
antibiotic resistance. Antibiotic resistance comes about because of
selection pressure, the bacteria that are resistant survive, and reproduce.
Eventually the population of the resistant bacteria becomes large enough to
be clinically significant.

Viruses change their antigenicity randomly, and are not subject to selection
pressure in the same way. Except for the AIDS virus. There are not many
antiviral medications, compared to antibiotics anyway, but there are
several antiviral medications for the AIDS virus, and we are now seeing HIV
strains that are resistant to medications in the same way that we are seeing
bacterial resistance.

As far as modern medicine and its effects on human evolution, this is
something that we will not know if there is any effect for thousands of
years. In fact the only effect I see is that modern medicine removes
selection pressure, so puts human evolution in stasis, I dont think we will
"devolve" because of modern medicine.

If anything, perhaps modern medicine will allow for "positive" evolution.
If you look at hominid evolution what is the major change over the millenia?
Increased brain capacity. What is the upper limit of our brain size?
Certainly female pelvic shape and size has something to do with it, if the
head is too large then mom and child would die in childbirth. But we are
seeing increasing rates of cesarean sections in this country. Could this
allow for an increase in the upper limit in brain size? Could it be the
case eventually that no one is born vaginally because human brain size
becomes too large?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tjalle T Vandergraaf" <ttveiv@mts.net>
To: "'Dave Wallace'" <dwallace@magma.ca>; <Dawsonzhu@aol.com>
Cc: <asa@lists.calvin.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 4:37 PM
Subject: RE: Is the human race with modern medecine not evolving downward?

>I see the example that Dave presents analogous to thermodynamics. By not
> interfering medically, the weak will [generally] not survive into
> adulthood
> and, one would think, the incidence of any inheritable disease would be
> less
> than it is now, with medial intervention. This could be represented
> thermodynamically by a "closed system."
>
> A thermodynamically "open system" would involve medical intervention.
> Medical intervention might create an unstable condition if it carried on
> too
> long. For example, we can isolate people from, and inoculate people
> against
> the flu bug every year but I would think that we will end up with a
> population that becomes increasingly vulnerable to the influenza virus.
> Some of this is already happening in hospitals where a virus (super bug)
> can
> become immune to pretty well any antibiotic.
>
> I, too, suffered from asthma as a child, but somehow outgrew it. However,
> I'm also red-green colour blind and it used to frustrate me to no end when
> I
> saw our children pick red raspberries from our raspberry canes while I
> would
> be chomping on sour, unripe berries. Maybe, in a gathering society, I
> would
> not have fared well or might not have survived long enough to pass my X
> chromosome deficiency on to future generations.
>
> If my comparison to thermodynamics is off-base, I'm sure somebody will set
> me straight. Just don't use red and green fonts to differentiate between
> various comments! :-)
>
> Chuck Vandergraaf
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of Dave Wallace
> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 2:33 PM
> To: Dawsonzhu@aol.com
> Cc: asa@lists.calvin.edu
> Subject: Is the human race with modern medecine not evolving downward?
>
> Thank you Wayne That was helpful although to me more in the side effects
> than in your main point
>
> Dawsonzhu@aol.com wrote:
>> One thing is that you're confusing the meaning of descent (expressed
>> as a direction), and descent (expressed as ancestry), as already pointed
>> out.
> Could someone on the list please explain to me why at least for humans,
> descent is not true in both senses. Both modern medicine and things
> like controlled environments seem to be allowing individuals to survive
> to have children that in the past would not have occurred. I realize
> that controlled environments are a mixed blessing, but at least having
> heat when the temperature is -30 out, does help lung conditions. . For
> example I have serious asthma and have had so since at least 5 years of
> age. In my senior year of high school we were at emerg at least two
> nights of most weeks getting adrenaline shots and that was when my
> atomizer, pills and allergy shots failed to control things. Between
> ages of 16 and 23 I was determined not to have children and still at
> times wonder if I did right when I see allergies in my children and
> grandchildren.
>
> Also in Canada at least some doctors used to actively terminate infants
> with problems. My grandfather told the story of expressing concern
> about deformed children and his doctor said to trust him and that such a
> child would not live. There was a small grave in the back part of the
> lot of one of my grandparents homes. Also at the end of the summer just
> prior to attending UniWat engineering I had asthma to the point I would
> pass out from lack of oxygen. Our (Christian?) doctor gave me a fairly
> big dose of demerol. I was hospitalized for at least ten days and our
> doctor was never allowed to see me. All my friends who were just
> entering second year nursing came and told me never to see him again
> since someone with active asthma should never be given demerol, morphine
> etc. If one read between the lines my doctor in Waterloo at University
> said exactly the same thing. Most of the time I beleive this was a case
> of attempted retroactive abortion, sometimes I can be more charitable
> and attribute it to the uppers and downers that our doctor was addicted
> to and also got some of his patients on. When the same doctor had
> removed my tonsils he found that I was very allergic to demerol so he
> seems without excuse. He told my parents it was a mistake, I never saw
> his again.
>
> Dave Wallace
>
>
Received on Sat Mar 25 18:29:26 2006