Re: The Presumptions of Modern Science / Man as the center of the universe

As far as presumptions of modern science and man as the center of the universe, check out 'privileged planet' :-)
I also develop a recent idea of mine that morality and religiosity may be under evolutionary control.
To me the idea that our relationship with God evolved from His Creation is quite an exciting one.

Pim

Janice Matchett <janmatch@earthlink.net> wrote:

    First this apropos item in light of recent discussion. ~ Janice

    "Thou shalt love thy neighbour." - Matthew 5:43

    PvM: And yet in the present polical climate, 'love thy neighbour' has become mostly lost.

    Indifference or hostility to religion is a well-established phenomenon in many Western countries. Recent events such as the Mohammed cartoon controversy point to the serious consequences that follow when secular society is unable to appreciate religious sensibilities, giving rise to needless offense.

    PvM: I'd say that indifference or hostility are two very different parts. Indifference means that many people accept that their neighbours may be religious. Hostility is a different concept and I am not sure that the cartoon example makes for a good one. Unable to appreciate religious sensibilities, perhaps. Hostility? H,,,

    The document starts by noting the loss of faith in today's world. "There is a rupture in the handing on the faith, intimately linked to the process of abandonment of a popular culture long attached to and impregnated by Christianity," the introduction states. The weakening of this popular religious culture brings with it serious consequences in terms of how people think, behave and judge.

    PvM: I understand the church's interest in maintaining the status quo but I am not sure what 'serious consequence' are.

    "The Church today is confronted more by indifference and practical unbelief than with atheism," the pontifical council commented. With few exceptions, governments no longer publicly affirm atheism.

    PvM: Good. Governments should remain 'indifferent' to these issues.

    Causes of unbelief

    The document notes that there are old and new causes behind the loss of religious belief. Drawing, in part, on the analysis made in the Second Vatican Council's pastoral constitution, "Gaudium et Spes," the Pontifical Council for Culture identifies some of the main factors.

    -- The presumptions of modern science. The vision of the world without any reference to God, that rejects his existence on the basis of scientific principles, has become widespread and commonplace.

    PvM: That's not a presumption of science. While a common confusion, it does not help when religious people continue to spread this flawed message.

    -- Man as the center of the universe. Western culture is permeated by a form of subjectivism that professes the absolute subjectivity of the individual and denies the existence of objective truths or values. This exaltation of the individual means that the Church is no longer accepted as a doctrinal and moral authority.

    PvM: First of all, it seems that Christianity and ID special is seeing 'man' or 'our earth' as the 'center of the universe' in more than one way. Secondly, the fact that the idea of objective truths are hard to support logically and empirically hardly means that morality has to suffer. What the real problem is that it affects the power of the Catholic church.

    -- The limitations of Christians and the Church. Negative or unpleasant experiences, or scandals caused by priests, can estrange some people from the Church.

    PvM: No kidding...

    -- Handing on the faith. Changes in the family and Catholic schools make the transmission of the faith to new generations more difficult. The power of the mass media also undermines traditional cultural practices in the area of religion.

    PvM: Some recent studies suggest that transmission of faith to new generations may not be as relevant as a genetic factor. But if culture is changing then perhaps it is time for religion to adapt? The concept of no women in leadership positions in the church has caused much backlash in many countries.

    -- Secularization. Many believers follow a lifestyle in which God or religion is of little importance. Changes in sexual morality have also had negative effects for the life of faith, the document notes.

    PvM: I'd love to see the negative effects of changes in sexual morality on the life of faith.

    Believing without belonging

    Nevertheless, it is wrong to think that this means religion ceases to have a role, the pontifical council contends. After an initial rejection of religion there is a sort of reaction, by a portion of the population at least, and people look once more for spiritual sustenance. But this search is no longer directed through the established churches or by means of traditional forms of worship.

    PvM: Showing that many humans have an almost inate need for religion or perhaps better stated the spiritual which gives them a sense of belonging and direction. I have speculated before that the evolution of religiosity and the evolution of morality may have certain overlaps.

    See http://atheism.about.com/b/a/183572.htm

    <quote>In the June/July 2005 issue of Free Inquiry, John Teehan offers two reasons for why religion might have evolved as part of the evolution of morality and moral codes. First, religion can introduce a third party to all ethical transactions: a god who can monitor transactions in order to punish cheaters.</quote>

    The Pontifical Council for Culture also identifies a number of other characteristics of these new forms of belief.

    -- It is a romantic form of religion, a religion of the spirit and of the self which has its roots in the crisis of the subject who is more and more narcissistic, and rejects all historical and objective elements. This do-it-yourself religion leads people to create a new image of God at different stages of their lives, according to the needs they perceive.

    PvM: And that is wrong why? Other than that it seems to undermine the power and influence of the church itself?

    -- It is a strongly subjective religion, where the individual is under no obligation to give an account of his reasons or behavior.

    PvM: That seems highly debatable.

    -- It is an adherence to a God who often has no face or personal characteristics. God is often seen more as a force or superior transcendent being, but not as a Father. In some circles this leads to a return of pantheism.

    PvM: Nature abhores vacuum.

    -- It is a religion in which there is a lack of interest for the question of the truth. For many, truth has a negative connotation, associated with concepts such as "dogmatism, intolerance, imposition."

    PvM: Because often the concept has been abused exactly for this reason. I see the need by some to have science not just support but prove their 'truths' as detrimental to science and faith.
Received on Sun Mar 12 14:43:37 2006