RE: Money is a tool. A Message to Redistributionists

You are right in many cases. Though I think that those who see it as a
money issue are looking at secondary causes. For perspective, I grew up in
Oakland, California during the 60s and 70s. Murder capital of the world at
the time. We lived on welfare and food stamps, while my father, having
divorced my mother at 5 years old, was living the big life after graduating
UC Berkeley. We didn't have much but were grateful for what we had. Thank
God for my mother and Grandparents who taught us that it was our own
responsibility to get out of the ghettos. The cared for us enough to set us
straight. They pushed us to excel. However, there were others, friends,
who did not have anyone pushing them. The only thing they saw was a dead
end in life. In despair they turned to drugs and alcohol, and crime. Some
of my closest friends growing up are now in prison. It wasn't the money per
se that lead them to the final destination, it was the lack of community and
family support and encouragement that kept them from seeing a way out of the
life they had. Now we are doing the same in San Francisco. They have
decided to keep the military from recruiting in schools. They say the
military is targeting minorities and poor people. I guess the liberals
believe that the minorities and poor would be better of dying at 20 in a
gang shootout or drive by, rather than at 20 in Iraq with the love, honor
and respect of a grateful nation for the sacrifice. Somehow I feel there
would be more meaning in a persons death if they died for something and
someone than for nothing. And should that person live through Iraq, they
might actually have a shot at a better life, educationally and economically.
But the last thing liberals want is a minority with money and education and
the will to do something meaningful. It's better to keep them in line with
welfare and drugs and alcohol. If we as Christians love our fellow man then
we will not sit back idly and let them destroy themselves and perhaps others
with them. We must help them get out of their situation, not by
imprisonment but by showing them the way up from the hole they are in.

Don P
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Matt "Fritz" Bergin [mailto:fritziematt@yahoo.com]
  Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 14:40
  To: donperrett@interstrenuus.com; American Science Association
  Subject: Re: Money is a tool. A Message to Redistributionists

  This was my argument at the begining of the debate. I think we need to
look individually at each person and actually get out there and interact
with them because it's my view that many poor have problems that need
solutions that do not have their roots in money and therefore money will not
solve it. You can see it on TV all the time. There was a show on TV where
these two guys go around and talk to people on the street and get to know
them and their problems then offer to give them help for addictions, ect.
With a socialist system we would just tell everyone that your problem is
money and leave it at that. I didn't see Jesus tossing a few coins to the
people that he came to that were in need and telling them that should solve
everything. It seems like a very simple and cold solution to a problem that
I think is complex and different for each person.

  ~Matt

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Donald Perrett (E-mail)
    To: 'Pim van Meurs'
    Cc: ASA Discussions (E-mail)
    Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:50 AM
    Subject: RE: Money is a tool. A Message to Redistributionists

    I see the Jubilee occur every month or so. I see it in even
non-Christian, though American, institutions. People and organizations that
go out and collect up items and money to help the poor. Even if there is no
big emergency like 9/11 or Katrina we see this on a fairly regular basis in
this country. Whether it is an ad on TV for Save the Children Fund or some
other NPO. Why must the Jubliee by stolen and raped by some artificial
wannabe-human organization known as government. When a person of poverty
gets help from those in his community, he feels grateful that there are
those that care for him. When a person gets his welfare check and food
stamps does he say thank you to the tax payers or even the government?
Where is the personal human love that is expressed in the giving and sharing
of the biblical jubilee? Dehumanize all you want into a globule of mass
corruption, but this will not change the condition of the human need to be
loved and cared for by his fellow man. Only through the fellowship gained
by the personal sacrifices made by one man for the sake of another can
peace, love and human kindness be increased.

    May the Lord work through each of us to increase our brothers wealth and
dignity

    Don P
      -----Original Message-----
      From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
Behalf Of Pim van Meurs
      Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 01:01
      To: asa@calvin.edu
      Subject: Re: Money is a tool. A Message to Redistributionists

      Interesting response, but missing the point again. My comment is one
of wonder why Christians seem to be unwilling to implement some biblical
teachings while adhering to others. Do we as Christians get to chose what
part of the Bible we like or dislike? Is that your attitude towards the
Bible or am I missing something?

      I am not sure where you got your idea about imposing my religious
conscience on others, I am merely asking about how others interpret the
Jubilee and why it seems to be totally ignored.

      Perhaps it's time for Janice to read more carefully before responding?
But at least we seem to agree that imposing religious belief onto others is
the wrong approach.
      The real question for me however is how Christians deal with the
concept of the Jubilee and why it seems to have been mostly ignored? But
perhaps my reading of the bible is too literal :-)

      Janice Matchett <janmatch@earthlink.net> wrote:
        At 11:58 PM 3/8/2006, Pim van Meurs wrote:

          How sad. The wealth gap is real and I wonder why Christians seem
to be unwilling to apply the concept of Jubilee to rectify these inequities.

        @ I suggest that you get together with a bunch of other
legalistic-minded professing Christians and put that idea into practice
among yourselves.

        But don't think that anyone is going to allow you to obtain enough
power and control to impose your religious conscience on the rest of us. --
which, like Pat Robertson, et.al., you would do in a heartbeat if you had
the chance.

        ~ Janice

          So why do you love it Janice since I find few redeeming Christian
aspects in the message, other than perhaps 'apologetics'

          Janice Matchett <janmatch@earthlink.net> wrote:

            I love it. ~ Janice

            "Money is a tool. And wealth, accumulation of money, is a bunch
of tools. Now when one person, a carpenter for instance, has a bunch of
tools, we don't say to him, "You have too many tools. You should give some
of your saws and drills and chisels to the guy who is cooking the omelets."
We don't try to close the tool gap."
Received on Fri Mar 10 05:34:16 2006