Re: Fw: The Left Hand of God or "is God a socialist"

At 12:59 AM 3/7/2006, Matt \"Fritz\" Bergin wrote:
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:fritziematt@yahoo.com>Matt "Fritz" Bergin
>To: <mailto:pimvanmeurs@yahoo.com>Pim van Meurs
>Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 10:54 PM
>Subject: Re: The Left Hand of God or "is God a socialist"
>
>I don't see how Jesus could be said to support any type of economic
>theory by reading the Bible besides that we should give to the poor
>and help each other out when we see someone in need. I think this is
>a far more meaningful way to help others. I'm not even sure what you
>mean by socialism since there are so many different types its hard
>to keep track. Looking at the website that you gave this looks like
>either a cult based on a few verses in the Bible or a really bad way
>to try to convince the religious that socialism is Biblical. I would
>have to say that this part of the top of the page "We know of
>similar Jubilee movements which feel the need to overpower existing
>churches and restructure them along an Old Testament pattern. At
>times it means using deceit and force to take over the property to
>redistribute the wealth in a socialist system" I don't really see
>deciet and force as something that Jesus taught but maybe you can
>point me to the versus that support this.
>
> ~Matt

@ Welcome to the list. Your observations are very astute.

The sort of socialism that is Scriptural is the form that is commonly
practiced on a small scale within families, within churches, and
other organizations. It is always going to be a voluntary sharing of
resources. The Bible teaches that the church and the family should
care for the poor rather than the state.

8th Commandment: You shall not steal. This is a guarantee of private property.

10th Commandment: You shall not covet. Again, a guarantee of private property.

Acts 5: Barnabas sellls a piece of property and brought the money to
the Apostles.

Ananias and Saphira decided to do the same - except they sold a
property - kept some of the money back - and lied about how much they
had been paid.

Peter said, 'Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the
Holy Spirit, and to keep back part of the price of the land? While it
remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in
your own power?' "

There you go! An apostolic confirmation of the right of private
property. Not only the means of production, but also the results of
that production were in Ananias' and Saphira's power, not in the
power or hands of the state or the church.

Proudhon , the French socialist said, "Property is theft."

But the commandment forbidding theft teaches the right of private
property and is in complete contradiction to socialist concepts.

~ Janice

>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:pimvanmeurs@yahoo.com>Pim van Meurs
>To: <mailto:asa@calvin.edu>asa@calvin.edu
>Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 9:43 PM
>Subject: The Left Hand of God or "is God a socialist"
>
>I listened to a radio program today with Lerner, author of "the Left
>hand of God". What occurred to me is the irony of the political
>right being the vanguards of religion when it is capitalism itself
>which undermines much of religion and faith.
>A good example mentioned was Christmas, and while the right laments
>that the secular leftists are causing the demise of this great
>holiday, it seems far more likely that the materialistic nature of
>the Santa Claus event is what really undermines the religious
>traditions of Christmas.
>
>The more I think about it the more I come to realize that Jesus was
>quite a socialist in his days.
>
>And note how God in Leviticus seems to support the redistribution of wealth
>
>And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times
>seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be
>unto thee forty and nine years. Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of
>jubile [sic] to sound on the tenth day of the sev enth month, in the
>day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.
>And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty
>throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall
>be a jubile unto you. ...
>-- Leviticus 25: 8-10 (KJV)
>
>See http://www.piney.com/JubileJewish.html for an interesting
>viewpoint on this. I wonder why the religious right is not focusing
>on these aspects of the Bible?
>
><quote>Let us look at the Bible's "Jubilee program" in more detail.
>It is rooted in a sense of sacred time, sacred cycles of work-time
>and rest-time that are defined partly by the earth and partly by
>society. These cycles (on the model of Sabbath rest and
>contemplation, celebration and material sharing on the seventh day)
>are sha ped by treating the seventh year and the fiftieth year (the
>year after the seventh seventh year) as a special time.
>Every seventh year, all debts are cancelled. The land is not
>subjected to organized cultivation or harvest; whatever freely grows
>from it may in that year be freely gathered by any family for its
>own food. What has been stored before is shared.
>In the fiftieth year, the land rests again, and every family returns
>to the equal share of productive land that it was allotted when
>Israelitesociety began. The poor become equal, the rich give up the
>extra wealth they had accumulated.
>And all this is done not by a central government's taxation or
>police power, but by the direct action of each family, each clan,
>each tribe in its own region.</quote>
>These are exciting issues for me to contemplate. Seems that it's
>time to return religious faith to wher e it would find a much better
>home. Given the policies of the right, I wonder if this is the place
>for us Christians to find shelter?
>
>http://www.allaboutgod.com/truth-topics/jubilee.htm
Received on Tue Mar 7 01:41:57 2006