Re: Living and Worshipping in the Real World

In discussions I have one aim. That is to convince people of the vast age of the earth, I don't think arguing for evolution is worth the candle. On Genesis One for someone to accept the Gap Theory or Concordism is just fine, even though I find them inadequate.

After all we need to secure Gold Juno and Utah and Omaha beaches before taking Berlin.

Michael
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jim Armstrong
  To: Bill Hamilton
  Cc: David Opderbeck ; asa@calvin.edu
  Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 6:40 PM
  Subject: Re: Living and Worshipping in the Real World

  You have described what I think is probably the most effective long-term approach - akin to being salt and pepper, or leavening. For most listeners, a simple single conversation cannot be persuasive enough to abruptly change their mind on matters like these. However, it can be quite informative for them that other temperate and respectable people hold to an alternative position, and for reasons they can explain and which are plausible, particularly if such explanations are offered without an accompanying demand that they be accepted. This sort of "witness" is easier to hear - by the fact that you offered the conversation, the subject is important enough to be mentioned (and perhaps why); it was offered with low confrontation, outside a context of absolutes; it sensitizes the listener to future indications that others hold similar views. This lightly confrontational approach (as opposed to rhetoric), has a better chance of persuasion in the long run because it respects the value of conversation, does not drive the listener into a defensive posture, and leaves the important ingredient of time to do its work.

  I think it's important to keep in mind the rate at which we changed our minds on important matters such as these.

  Thanks, Bill. JimA

  Bill Hamilton wrote:

--- David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com> wrote:

  I'm wondering if there are others on the list who go to "typical"
evangelical-type churches, and how you handle the dissonance between what
you see and hear at church concerning faith-science issues and what you
think about such issues.
    
In my church the record is mixed, but there's reason for hope. About ten years
ago a high school biology teacher, who was in a fight with the public school
where he taught over his teaching YEC,got together with another individual and
set an objective to get creationist teaching into every Sunday School class.
They started with an elective high school class and gave up when there was
little interest among the students (my son said, "I take biology in school. I
don't want more biology on Sunday morning") Our pastor at the time hld YEC
views, but did not claim any scientific charter for them. He just believed that
YEC was the most straightforward interpretation of the Scriptures. After I
spoke with him he softened his rhetoric a bit. I even heard him say, "if you're
a creationist ... " in a sermon.

Our current pastor is an OEC, and as nearly as I can tell the congregation is
comfortable with that. He is dead set against evolution, saying flatly that the
genetic code will not permit it. I had a conversation with him last summer on a
drive to Port Huron (about an hour' drive from where we live) in which I
explained that I believe in common descent, but can't really be considered an
evolutionist because I don't believe there is any element of chance involved,
an he seemed comfortable at least with my believing that.

I've learned through hard experience that there are limits to how much you can
achieve with the average evangelical. They seem to have accepted the prevailing
notion that scientific knowledge is "real" knowledge, and therefore, to prevent
science from threatening Christianity, Christianity must be wrapped in a
scientific mantle.

Bill Hamilton
William E. Hamilton, Jr., Ph.D.
586.986.1474 (work) 248.652.4148 (home) 248.303.8651 (mobile)
"...If God is for us, who is against us?" Rom 8:31

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Received on Mon Jan 23 14:17:09 2006