Re: Living and Worshipping in the Real World

Apart from YEC deception here is something else on one chap whose career was ruined. We could also add the character assassinations which emanate from YEC organisations against compromisers. This came from letters Wonderly sent and Numbers account in The Creationists.

Mervi, how do you teach the age of the earth in science? Also the only way you can criticise YEC arguments for a young earth is to imply that they are either stupid, self-deluded or dishonest.

Can you give me an example of a competent YEC geologist?

The YEC insistence that an evangelical must be young earth also has its sinister side as less than Christian methods have been used to silence critics from within evangelicalism.

One of the earliest victims was Daniel Wonderly ( -2004), who taught biology and geology at Whitcomb's college of Grace College, Indiana from 1966 to 1973. He graduated in anthropology from Wheaton College in 1947. Wonderly was a conservative Baptist, who accepted vast geological time but not evolution. That was common among American evangelicals up to the Sixties and thus these beliefs, though seen as ultra by secular scientists, conformed well with evangelical colleges at that time. Wonderly had both biological (Ohio Univ) and theological training. He regarded himself as a biblical creationist and adopted a Concordist view of Genesis. When applying for the post he did not hide his views from the college and was appointed. This coincided with the time when YEC was gaining momentum after the publication of The Genesis Flood. While he was there Whitcomb, co-author of The Genesis Flood was persuading his colleagues and officials of his denomination (Grace brethren) that they must adopt "his extreme position if they were going to be true to the bible". Wonderley wrote to me "By 1970 he {Whitcomb} persuaded the academic dean of the college that I would have to be either dismissed or entirely silenced."[1] He was finally forced out in 1973 because of several unpublished papers giving geological evidence for age. It is not clear what employment he had after that but continued to write on geology. In 1977 he published God's Time-Records in Ancient Sediments, which gave a fine summary of standard geological arguments for great age, excluding radiometric age dating, which he omitted for tactical purposes. Wonderly also argued later that YEC was making thinking evangelicals more inclined to adopt theistic evolution, resulting in the double marginalisation of his intermediate position.

Michael

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[1] Letter from Wonderly

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Mervin Bitikofer
  To: asa@calvin.edu
  Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:53 AM
  Subject: Re: Living and Worshipping in the Real World

  I have a similar experience but with a significant difference -- it is in the private Christian school in Kansas where I teach (not a church). Probably the majority who are involved at my school (at least who are more vocal about it) would be YEC. We have a couple teachers -- one of them in the highschool english department, ironically, who are deeply committed to YEC and he even offers an elective semester course on creationism (which for him would mean exactly YEC -- any deviation would be heresy.) Much of that course content involves watching videos such as Ken Hamm -- which, based on the ones I've seen -- he is quite the conspiracy enthusiast if I remember correctly. But having painted this "bleak" picture, I must in fairness to him (my english teacher colleague) state that I've shared with him that I just don't feel that young earth evidence is compelling, and he has not, as a result crusaded against my involvement. He tolerates my presence as a science teacher who has not endorsed YEC, but I in return do not spend my days "rocking the boat" and trying to undermine his influence. I consider a subset of my mission rather to be to challenge students to think critically about why they believe what they believe and to expose them to other points of view. No doubt many students leave our school firmly committed to YEC views -- typically ones whose families adhere strongly to that platform. Some students do not. Perhaps I'm rationalizing my non-confrontational stance. But I think the YEC curriculum material pretty much speaks for itself in regard to scientific depth (or lack thereof), and I'm not too afraid of anyone being "warped" by its presence. A couple of my own texts have explicitly YEC agendas and I use them as an opportunity to encourage critical reading on the part of my students -- that they not accept everything they can find in print. I'm no more bothered by that than I would be by texts that attempt to stifle any criticisms of evolution. I revel in the opportunities to show my students that we all -- text authors and Phd's included have an agenda, and it is fun (sometimes too easy) to try and identifiy what it is. I have my own two sons in our school where (Lord willing) they will graduate. I'm not at all threatened by these folks and I'm don't mean this with a tone of intellectual superiority -- I mean rather that they choose not to be threatening. That would probably change if I got in their faces (Dick Fischer style) and belittled everything they feel committed to. But I don't see that as productive (or Mr. Fischer will no doubt say, I'm wimping out.) One doesn't try to stop a freight train with a head-on collision. You apply the brakes gently. If the train was about to head over a cliff it might be another matter. But I don't think any such cliffs exist. YEC simply isn't the dangerous bogey-man its detractors want to paint it to be. Contrary to frantic liberal paranoia, YECers will go on to become doctors, engineers, professors or anything else they set their minds to. Their ideology may not do them any good services if they pursue a scientific career -- unless it is to goad them on as a challenge. But to the extent they come armed with some partially erroneous ideology, they can just join the club with all the rest of us. I fellowship with them as Christian brothers and sisters who have far more important things in common with me than differences.

  --merv

  Iain Strachan wrote:

    David,

    Looks like I may be about to experience the same as you are. After 23 years in an evangelical church in Abingdon UK with no hint of YEC, I noticed from the newsletter and sermon sheet that Prof. Andy McIntosh, a prominent YEC has been invited in February. The newsheet advertised a question and answer session he was giving on the Saturday, to be followed by the sermon on Sunday. The note, which was headed "Don't miss this!", said it was to "challenge" our thinking about creation. Depends whether it means to challenge you to think it through, or whether it means to say you're wrong to accept evolution. Several scientists within the church are concerned and saddened by this development, which I guess is at the behest of the Vicar. It is an awkward situation for me - for a while at a difficult time in my life, I also dabbled on the fringes of YEC-ism, and have met Andy personally, so he probably thinks I'm a YEC & doesn't realise I'm now "batting for the other side". I don't know what the best thing to do is, but I'd appreciate everyone's prayers!

    Iain

    On 1/23/06, David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com> wrote:
      I'm wondering if there are others on the list who go to "typical" evangelical-type churches, and how you handle the dissonance between what you see and hear at church concerning faith-science issues and what you think about such issues. I noticed some brochures for an AIG seminar on my church's bulletin board today and it made me feel ill. In the past, Ken Hamm did a seminar at my church, and the Senior Pastor is a fan. I've spoken with him about this and there's a big enough tent to allow me to be involved in leadership and such despite my "old earth" views. Yet, most of the leadership (at least those few who think about this stuff) accepts YEC, and I'm sure the K-12 school we have at the church promotes YEC (I send my kids to the public school). I love my church and have a long history of many years of service there. I wouldn't say that the church as a whole is militantly YEC or something like that; it's not something you would even ordinarily hear about in the course of a typical Sunday, though occasionally someone offers a Sunday School classes that eaches YEC. Yet, as is the case in evangelical churches and in the evangelical subculture all around the U.S., YEC is always there beneath the surface. I just wonder if others have stories of how they've navigated these waters.

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    After the game, the King and the pawn go back in the same box.

    - Italian Proverb
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Received on Mon Jan 23 09:30:47 2006