RE: Thermodynamics and Money [Oil/Energy]

I get the distinct feeling I'm beating an expired horse, if the only
response from Janice Matchett is a regurgitation of an on-line article. I
think one of the points of the original on-line article was that not all the
fissile material is used up, not that the entire mass of the U-235
(including the mass of the newly formed fission products) was converted into
energy. But, as I wrote earlier, in competition with "fresh U-235 from
Saskatchewan's Athabasca basin, it's currently not economical to process
spent nuclear fuel (at least not natural uranium fuel used in CANDU
reactors). And, once the U-235 from conventional deposits has been used,
there is lots of uranium in seawater that can be extracted.

Chuck

  _____

From: janice matchett [mailto:janmatch@earthlink.net]
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 9:43 PM
To: D. F. Siemens, Jr.; ttveiv@mts.net
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: Thermodynamics and Money [Oil/Energy]

At 10:32 PM 10/30/2005, D. F. Siemens, Jr. wrote:

Beyond what Chuck says, I think there is a nitwit charge: you're not using
all the energy in the uranium (Pu) nucleus. This is because fissioning
usually produces a couple of neutrons and a couple nuclei whose total mass
is fairly close to the original U or Pu mass. Therefore, since you haven't
transformed all the mass of the U or Pu into energy, you're "wasting" it.
You can avoid this waste by rescinding the laws of nature. So chop! chop!
Dave

### "...In the real world, however, investors don't care a fig whether they
earn positive Eroei"

Thermodynamics and <http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1511695/posts>
Money [Oil/Energy]
Posted on 10/29/2005 2:59:11 PM EDT by
<http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1511695/~matchettpi/> Matchett-PI
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1511695/posts

 
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:53:32 -0600 "Tjalle T Vandergraaf" <ttveiv@mts.net>
writes:

The link to an article on thermodynamics and energy posted by Janice
Matchett doesnt lead to anything new. Of course, there are many cases
where more energy is spent than is being generated. This is the reality of
Newtons laws of thermodynamics. Any process used to convert one form of
energy into a more useful form is inefficient. What this has to do with
energy supplies is beyond me. The article also contains this gem: As an
alternative to gas, Total S.A., the French oil giant, is thinking about
building a nuclear power plant to supply heat to melt and crack the tar. But
nuclear reactors extract only a minuscule fraction of the energy locked up
in the nuclei of uranium atoms; all the rest gets discarded as "waste." On
Eroei logic, uranium would never be used to generate either electricity or
heat. But per unit of raw stored energy, uranium is a thousand times cheaper
than oil. Its not only Total S.A. that has looked at this. At least 20
years ago, a similar study was done in Canada to use organic-cooled nuclear
reactors to heat the bitumen in the Alberta oil sands. But the statement
that nuclear reactors extract only a minuscule fraction of the energy
locked up in the nuclei of uranium atoms; all the rest gets discarded as
"waste is irrelevant. A U-235 nucleus, when it fissions, releases all the
energy that is created in the conversion of matter to energy. Not all U-235
is fissioned (although more than half the U-235 is burned in CANDU
reactors, as well as quite a bit of the Pu-239). Recycling the spent fuel
could be used to extract the remaining U-235 and any Pu-239 but there is so
much U in Saskatchewan that recycling is, at present, not economically
viable.

Chuck Vandergraaf

  _____

From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of janice matchett

Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 3:59 PM

To: asa@calvin.edu

Subject: Thermodynamics and Money [Oil/Energy] Was: Re: Life after the oil
crash

Thermodynamics and <http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1511695/posts>
Money [Oil/Energy]

Posted on 10/29/2005 2:59:11 PM EDT by Matchett-PI
<http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1511695/~matchettpi/>

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1511695/posts

 
Received on Mon Oct 31 10:53:28 2005