Re: hypothetical question about Noah's flood

Jim Armstrong wrote:

"So, doesn't take long to get to where liquid water wouldn't exist (long)."

Not exactly. High pressures keep water liquid at great depths. Oil wells have been drilled to depths exceeding five miles, and the water there is still liquid.

Don

  From: Jim Armstrong<mailto:jarmstro@qwest.net>
  Cc: asa@calvin.edu<mailto:asa@calvin.edu>
  Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 12:46 PM
  Subject: Re: hypothetical question about Noah's flood

  Yep, deep, massive water deposits undetected is a pretty big pill to swallow. Moreover, it gets hot fast as you descend even a mile or so below the surface (less in some places). So, doesn't take long to get to where liquid water wouldn't exist (long). Of course, where water trickles down to reach boiling or superheat temperatures, you get the stuff of Yellowstone and Iceland. Perhaps this is the sort of plausibility description that might help the non-technical folks sense that the "fountains of the deep" describes something other than enormous cisterns. The tsunami argument (earlier) might similarly help them with understanding that the giga-cataclysmic collapse of such "caverns" would wipe everything out and change the atmosphere in the process. ...maybe. JimA

  Sheila Wilson wrote:

    You are correct in stating that I want a solution that encapsulates the entire problem. We have the solution: the flood didn't occur globally. We have many reasons that are all nicely scientific so how do we share that with non-scientists and scientists who have never thought about it? As a side note, I think everyone should believe your great idea that the earth was originally flat - I love it! :) The earth was flat and the water was underneath, like a drinking glass under a plate. As the flood began, the pressure from the water was released and the earth curled up to its current spherical shape. The earth was basically like a dry sponge so the waters were able to soak right in after the flood.

    Despite the flat sponge earth theory above, this is the discussion for which I am looking. I will comment on several emails. First, Dave and Jim were discussing the waters of the earth, pillars, etc. We have absolutely no evidence of giant caverns, even with the seismic abilities of today. I believe the caverns required to hold such a large volume of water would be easily detectable. If the caverns ever existed at any depth, the space that contained the water would have collapsed. As Jim pointed out, the temperature of the water when it reached the surface would have been very warm, easily 130 degrees F or more. This still doesn't allow for a mechanism to cause the water to escape: both a route and the pressure required. I have frequently seen tectonism addressed in young earth theories, in that the mountain building events all occurred during the flood. The physics required to create this type of tectonism would have destroyed everything.

    Glenn commented on sedimentation and erosion with reference to the hardness of the rock. I contend that erosion can occur by reworking existing loose sediments but this could not have created the miles deep sediment seen in Wyoming and other areas (I agree Don, Wyoming was just an example). Glenn also commented about creating a worldwide uniform level of beaches. I hadn't thought of that but Glenn's idea seems correct. Don also made excellent points about the sedimentation rates in the deep receding waters. Those sedimentation rates would be low with virtually no erosion. Would we expect erosion anywhere?

    What else would happen?

    Sheila

    "D. F. Siemens, Jr." <dfsiemensjr@juno.com><mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com> wrote:
      Sheila, you have a problem. You want explanations to be consistent with the whole package of information. What I've found among YECs is "solutions" to problem A that are contradictory to problem B. We are not describing how water returns to its original subterranean (great deep--it's true because it's in scripture) position, for that was destroyed when the waters broke forth and the surface broke up as it collapsed into the space vacated by the waters. The waters could not return to a place no longer in existence. However, you are not to ask where they went to, but maybe the original earth had virtually no water on its nearly smooth surface and all the water simply drained into the current ocean basins which were produced by the Flood. But before they gathered, they had to tear everything up and redeposit it as seen in the current strata. This was not the kind of yearlong simple soaking that you seem to envision. It was a cataclysmic flow and cross flow so extreme that virtually none of the original crust (except perhaps the lowest levels if crust includes everything down to the Moho or below) could possibly survive. But you mustn't say that such violent stormy seas would destroy the Ark! You must turn your uniformitarian mind off and believe what they claim the Bible says.

      I think I have a better scriptural basis in a different theory. In the original creation the earth was flat, surrounded by the great sea and sitting over the waters of the great deep. At the time of the Flood it curled up to become spherical. The YECs are mistaken when they hold that the earth on which Adam was placed was already spherical. If they only get their exegesis right, they will acknowledge that I'm right in this. ;-)
      Dave
Received on Sun Jul 24 01:22:58 2005