RE: The Washington Post "Dissing Darwian"

I see no difference whatsoever between the conclusion reached by ID and the biblical observation," The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands." Psalm 19:1. Both inferences are based not only on the physical data but also on a multiple of presuppositions that are an integral part of the observer. Terms like order, complexity, intelligent designer, Supreme Being is not part of the data nor follow logical from it.

Instrument detection provides the data that becomes the subject matter of science. Deductions and inferences are made by the human mind in developing laws that summarize the data and eventually creating theories that unifies many of the experimentally arrived at laws. All sorts of thoughts go into the set up that collects the data, but the data is what eventually the subject matter of science becomes.

I believe one can make higher order inferences from the data, which is minimally required to do science. Such higher order inferences are normally made in order to integrate scientific data with evidence from other kinds of knowledge. Therefore, I do not see that much difference amongst Christians who hold differing views of the history of the universe. What defines a Christian is his/her relationship with our Lord and Savior Jesus the Christ and not his/her views of what is the precise history of the earth. What is very objectionable is to use the latter to impugn the Christian faith of others.

Moorad

________________________________

From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu on behalf of Michael Roberts
Sent: Sat 6/4/2005 5:51 AM
To: Ted Davis; rich.blinne@gmail.com
Cc: asa@calvin.edu; dickfischer@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: The Washington Post "Dissing Darwian"

To continue the discussion on Wedges, both YEC and ID have invented Wedges
to divide Christian against Christian and to unite all other Christian and
non-Christian against them.

The problem is that also Christians form alliances to oppose either YEC or
ID.

All this results in the popular view on both sides of the pond that religion
is contrary to science and "real" Christians oppose "Darwinism".
As Ted says it all stems from using the conflict thesis of Ted's favourite
writer AD White, and ID and YEC invert the goodies and baddies.

I agree with Ted's criticism of Gould on NOMA. I see science and
Christianity as overlapping and also that theology has to be expressed in
the science of the day whether in Genesis One, R Boyle, A Gray or any of us.
That does not mean that theology is under science as ID and YEC often make
out

Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Davis" <TDavis@messiah.edu>
To: <rich.blinne@gmail.com>
Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>; <dickfischer@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: The Washington Post "Dissing Darwian"

>>>> Rich Blinne <rich.blinne@gmail.com> 6/3/2005 12:07:41 PM >>>writes:
> I think you can get some Darwinists to admit this point. If the goal with
> respect to the public schools was true neutrality with respect to all
> metaphysical conclusions you might get a consensus. Change your wedge and
> split the Gouldians from the Saganites. Right now the current strategy
> gets
>
> the two camps to ally with each other against a common anti-Darwinist
> enemy.
> Most of the current educational proposals, however, have a much more
> Gouldian flavor and the Gouldians are asking for religious allies. Even if
>
> we cannot stomach such an alliance at the very least we should encourage
> that from the outside.
>
> Ted replies:
> The "wedge" strategy is not of my making, and I don't endorse it. I
> accept
> the general validity of MN, and I agree that public schools should aim for
> true neutrality, though I do not believe that we can really achieve that
> without allowing parents to pick their own educational philosophies,
> including various religious ones.
>
> As for Gould, which Gould are we referring to? His NOMA partly
> contradicts
> some of his more famous utterances about religion; and the NOMA concept
> itself is insulting to many religious people, since Gould's NOMA is just
> AD
> White's warfare thesis: religion has ethical value, but no ability to make
> statements about actual reality. Thus religion must be shorn of theology
> in
> order to be acceptable to modern minds. That's White all over again, and
> Gould knew it.
>
> Ted
>
>
Received on Sat Jun 4 12:14:45 2005