Re: ASA, ID, Blogs and my observations

Glenn

I most certainly believe in intelligent design by the one who created all from nothing. We see that design in the whole structure of the universe, including the design of my collie pup , the beauty of the basket ofeggs glacial topography here and beyond to the carboniferous hills. God was most subtle and intelligent to design a world in which the natural processes form such beautiful landforms, but that is not the same as the parody of intelligent design by our creator called Intelligent Design. I am afraid the ID guys have made Design a daft concept and we need to reclaim it.

There's nothing more to say to Denyse but I do wonder whether Johnson's misrepresentation of what he calls Darwinism is not culpable. He so clearly does not understand modern evolutionary science

Michael----- Original Message -----
  From: glennmorton@entouch.net
  To: asa@calvin.edu
  Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 2:18 PM
  Subject: ASA, ID, Blogs and my observations

  Iain wrote:

>Denyse,
>
>I don't think you're going to achieve anything other than antagonise the ASA list members, by referring to ASA as a
>"dozy organization". Insulting people rarely achieves anything constructive.
>
>Iain

  I have been watching this thread about ASA being misrepresented as a hotbed of ID folks and the statements made in Nature. While I am unable to access the url listed, I am interested in the above statement in the context of the ASA not believing in ID.

  I am struck by the ridiculousness of a group of people who claim to believe in God the creator, who are incensed at being accused of believing in design. The logic exhibited here in these threads is truly bizarre.

   Are we to believe that the majority of the ASA members believe God created the universe, but he didn't design it?

  ARe we to believe that the ASA beleives that God created the universe but he didn't do it intelligently?

  Are we to believe that God isn't intelligent?

  Are we to believe that God, who set up an evolutionary system, didn't design that system?

  I for one am a bit ashamed of the reaction here and it is one reason I am not posting much here anymore. The ridiculous concept that the ASA doesn't believe in design, but they believe in God who created the evolutionary system, but who didn't design or didn't do it intelligently is sheer absurdity.

  Michael Roberts says: "However would it be worth stressing that the ASA (like its Uk counterpart CIS) is not an ID organisation but is broader?"

  Broader? Oh yeah, that means we don't believe in design. No, far be it from us to believe in design. God no. Our mothers would disown us if they knew we beleived in design. And God, who Michael believes can save us all from our sins, couldn't possibly have been involved in creation. If He were, then He would be the Designer, but we would NEVER advocate Design because we are NOT a design oriented organization.

  Randy Isaac says: "On the other hand, we don't want to be considered as an ID advocate organization. "

  No, we certainly don't want our friends in the universities thinking that we might beleive in an intelligent God who designed the universe.

  I mean, if we don't beleive in design, what do we beleive in? No wonder the ASA is so misunderstood (and Denyse may very well have caught the spirit here). I have stated similar things about the ASA. It is ineffectual. It is ignored and when someone accuses them of being believers in design, they run for the hills. Far be it from us to believe that God designed the world. Lord, no, we wouldn't want THAT said about us. Better to own a house of ill-repute.

  Frankly this discussion makes me want to cease being a member of such a spineless and pusilanimous organization.

  To me, the sad thing is that Denyse got it right and then kind of backed away. I don't back away easily, but I don't think there is much purpose in trying to convince the BACKSIDES of people who are running away, to turn around and actually defend the faith, or defend the concept that God is creator. (oh my gosh, there is that C-word again--wash my mouth out with soap!)

  I don't know if I will respond to any of y'all on this or not. It doesn't seem to be worthwhile to discuss things with you all. Y'all are too busy avoiding conflict with the predominant world view--atheism.
Received on Sun May 22 10:31:46 2005