Re: Stealth attack on evolution

Ted wrote: (in part):

" Some of them would probably agree with my own view, that the Supreme Court errs when it invokes Jefferson's extra-constitutional language about "a wall of separation between church and state" rather than sticking with Madison's constitutional language about "disestablishment.""

I always thought Jeff's statement was simply descriptive and that Madison's was the grounding of c-s separation. In any event, I've not previously distinguished two flavors of this issue.

Ted: "I do not believe in the "separation of church and
state," rather I believe that no specific religion should be established by government as the official American church. There's big difference."

Well -- yes. But simply saying the second does not seem (to me) to get at the underlying problems. It is far too vague and allows for mischief. "Government," of course, must include any agent of the state, including your friendly school teacher, who has, after all, a captive audience.

In overturning the very unfortunate Gobitis case, in 1943, Justice Jackson wrote as follows:

If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation,
it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe
what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion .
or other matters of opinion... .

That statement, to me, is what c-s separation is all about.

Ted: " The purpose of the "first part of the first amendment," as Yale law professor Stephen Carter likes to call it (see The Culture of Disbelief), was to help religion(s) flourish and to enhance religious influence, not to keep them out of public affairs."

I liked that book, and his sequel, IN GOD's NAME. See my PERSPECTIVE review of the latter at www.burgy.50megs.godsname.htm.

But to call that "the purpose" is to overlook the fact that the amendment had other purposes as well. Madison's "Remonstrance" is also great reading on this subject (I'm sure you know that but perhaps not all lurkers do).

I appreciate the discussion; we do not have to agree!

Burgy (John Burgeson)

www.burgy.50megs.com/morse.htm (Review of the accursed life of Samuel F. B. Morse)

___________________________________________________________________
Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand.
Now includes pop-up blocker!
Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!
Received on Thu Feb 10 17:25:43 2005