Re: Subject: Re: Cobb County

Burgy wrote:
>I think we need to give the ICR / AIG nonsense peddlers a "place at the
>table."
>
>They are our Christian brothers; they are our fellow citizens. They
>deserve respect, even if their teachings do not.
>
>In any honest comparison, they will lose.
>
>By ignoring them, they can rightfully claim "martyr" and their strategies
>ARE WINNING.  Our strategies ARE NOT WINNING.
>

To some extent, I sense the problem may be more a feeling
of "lack of control" or "lack of any say".

There are several reasons I say this:
(1) Even in a free and transparent society like one enjoys
in the US, institutions of state control what children are
taught. Parents are not dumb, I think they know this
subconciously.

(2) The effort is directed at teaching in K-12. Similar
efforts are not directed at the universities. I sense
what we are seeing is that parents "want their say".

Unfortunately, "having one's say" does not always equal
"the most good for the largest number of people" and
may not even be good at all period. But short of direct
and immediate loss of life, property, or liberty, it
may not necessarily be under the control of the state
to say what it best in a free and transparent society.

(3) Whether or not current textbook publishers for K-12
edit the statements on methodological naturalism carefully
or not these days, there seem to have been at least a few
textbooks that got through at some time in history that
tried to inculcate views of scientism. Even the more
intelligent atheists oppose such narrow views although
not as strongly. Nevertheless, the fact remains.

I do recall the _feeling_ when I was growing up that the
only people with a brain in their head were the atheists.
I cannot pinpoint anything precise that gave me that feeling
but I cannot think my experience was unique. When parent
who "want their say" are confronted with kids like I was,
I surmise it is like a match in munitions dump.

So I sense that a least part of this amounts to an issue
of "parental control". We are probably all a little
selective about what "control" we cede to the state.
I am not even trying to say that they are right for
demanding this, but just that this is the way it is.
Plato did consider democracy "mob rule".

This would mean that one of the solutions is to just drop
the evolution teaching until college when the students
"have come of age".

Frankly, although I share some of your sentiments, I am
not as favorable to the idea of allowing Creationism
"equal time" in school. The reason is because cults
will battle for their brand of nonsense to be taught
also. It would be very difficult to write laws that
establish which brands of poison are allowed, and which
are not. If parents expect only their special brand of
folly to be taught, that is certainly not the duty of
the state. Although I am not so well read on this as
perhaps I should be, Madison was concerned about that tyranny
of the majority, so particularly in the case of majorities,
this cannot be used to justify inculcating propoganda
of any one group on another. So YEC + evolution side
by side, although I think you are right, violates some
other important principles of democracy.

I do foresee troubling consequences in dropping evolution
in K-12. Particularly, it just transfers a festering
problem from one place to another. YEC can blame the
universities for having lost their children to atheism
when they hit the college scene (naturally, they will
not blame themselves). Consequently, the battleground
goes there, and one can predict the "red scare" is
another political stratagem to be inflicted on the
unwary. I think the Federalist didn't consider that.

So "giving in" is not necessarily the best either.
Nevertheless, perhaps we do have to decide _at what
age_ are people considered adult enough to make their
own decision about the evolution model and the YEC
alternative. I think the parents of the staunch YEC
position do have _some rights_ to decide at what age
that exposure should be.

by Grace alone we proceed,
Wayne
Received on Sun Jan 30 19:26:25 2005