Re: Cobb County

Vernon,
I did not mention Darwin or evolution in the post to which you responded.
The observations and conclusions I noted are compatible with OEC, ID, TE,
gap theory and evolutionism--a wide swath. They are only incompatible
with YEC. But you bring it down to what can be presented as a mantra:
Darwin false, Vernon true. This looks to me like an irrational obsession,
so that logic and sense have been abandoned. I cannot respond to you on
such points.

I find it interesting that anyone who disagrees with you is somehow led
astray of Satan. Have you never noted that the devil quotes scripture to
his purpose? The Pharisees strictly adhered to scripture, yet Christ said
they made their followers children of Gehenna (Matthew 23:15). Since you
make what the Lord has created conflict with your interpretation of his
Word, and I hold that creation and scripture interpretation must agree,
who makes God a liar? Who is deluded by Satan?

I have presented this as clearly as I can. If you do not see it, there is
no grounds for further discussion of these matters. So I shall not
respond to posts from you unless you repent of making God a liar.
Dave

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 00:29:17 -0000 "Vernon Jenkins"
<vernon.jenkins@virgin.net> writes:
Dave,

Your email of 17 Jan included the following: "If the Creator produced
this universe about 6000 years ago so that any rational observer thinks
it is billions of years old, he is deliberately deceitful. Bluntly, your
deity is a liar." A serious charge, indeed. You later go on to say, "I do
vigorously oppose scientism, materialism, dogmatic naturalism, all
positions which deny the God who is Truth.", and I am thus encouraged to
offer a brief scriptural defence of my position.

 It seems to me that the one biblical character Christians find it
hardest to talk about - or even acknowledge - is Satan. Yet our Lord
describes him as "...the prince of this world..." (Jn.14:30) and "...a
liar, and the father of it." (Jn.8:44). The apostles also warn us of him
- notably in Eph.6:11 where Paul, speaking to believers, writes, "Put on
the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles
of the devil." Yes, Satan - our adversary (1Pet.5:8) - is a real and
powerful being; nevertheless, he is subservient to God (Job 1:6-12,
2:1-6) - and it appears that he is there, _unintentionally_ performing an
important role in the unfathomable purposes of God.

Now, on the basis of these revelations, one has to ask why many
Christians appear to believe that a consideration of the _physical_
evidences alone is sufficient to sustain the confident claims made in
respect of the age of the earth and God's method of creating. The answer
is again to be found in the Scriptures where we read "...for the
imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth..." (Gen.8:21)

To summarise: my God is no liar; His word is true in its entirety. In
believing differently, you have failed to heed its clear warnings and, in
my view, have become embroiled in a gross deception. An eminent
evangelical theologian here in the UK has described Darwin's, The Origin
of Species as "more responsible for undermining people's faith and belief
in the Scriptures, and in God's way of salvation, than any other single
book." What a coup for Satan that was! - mass delusion on a world-wide
scale - yet, in the wisdom of God, permitted, so that His sovereign
purposes might be fulfilled.

Vernon
www.otherbiblecode.com

----- Original Message -----
From: D. F. Siemens, Jr.
To: vernon.jenkins@virgin.net
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 4:15 AM
Subject: Re: Cobb County

Vernon,
You speak out of ignorance. I've produced no end of gluteal agony among
those I have felt to be wrong. On the other hand, you see only ONE
problem which results from eisegesis. I made note of several
controversial areas which you ignored. I did not mention your hobby, and
you tax me with it. I have to conclude that you cannot see reality
because your obsession blinds you to all else.

You speak of "healthy criticism of an unproven (and unprovable) theory."
Technically, you are right, for no scientific theory can be strictly
proved. But we do observe and fit our observations into logically
consistent structures. When they have a reasonable amount of support,
they are known as theories. N.B., in the context of science, "theory"
does not mean "guess". For example, astronomers observe the heavens. They
note that some things they observe have displaced spectral patterns. For
some, they have a measure of distance based on cepheids, novae, and other
things that they observe. The more distant galaxies have spectra
displaced more toward the red. The rational explanation is that this
spectral displacement is a matter of Doppler shift. No absorption
produces a shift, only reduced intensity, similar to the effect of
distance. Extrapolating from the galaxies whose distance can be
reasonably determined as described to dimmer galaxies and their greater
red shift, they calculate that 13.7 x 10^9 years ago, all the matter they
see was collected at one central point. That is, the universe we observe
is about 13,700,000,000 years old. If the Creator produced this universe
about 6000 years ago so that any rational observer thinks it is billions
of years old, he is deliberately deceitful. Bluntly, your deity is a
liar. I once believed as you do (without numerology). It was only by the
grace of God that I did not chuck my faith when I discovered that what I
had been told the Bible taught was false. Six-day creationists have been
responsible for many shipwrecks.

I could pile up additional evidences that your position makes God a liar
many times over. I shan't. I choose my battles so as to defend truth. I
do vigorously oppose scientism, materialism, dogmatic naturalism, all
positions which deny the God who is Truth.
Dave
Received on Wed Jan 19 13:45:47 2005