Re: laws of thermodynamics

My comments are interspersed in red.

Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Sheila Wilson
  To: Jim Armstrong ; George Murphy
  Cc: asa@calvin.edu
  Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 2:26 PM
  Subject: Re: laws of thermodynamics

  I rather liked the argument (and picture) that a stick cannot come back to life because of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Unfortunately, it doesn't explain what happened to Aaron's staff when he was shown to be God's chosen High Priest.

  Seriously, your response and George's leads me to further questions. Can we consider the universe a closed system? If God is the Source of all life (as the Bible says), then is it really closed?

  To say that a system is "closed" can have several different meanings. When a system is said to be closed in thermodynamics, mechanics, &c, it means that it has a bounding surface & that no energy, momentum &c passes through its boundary. If this isn't the case the system is said to be open. A closed universe, OTOH, is one whose "space sections" are something like the 3 dimensional surface of a 4 dimensional sphere, so that it has no boundary. A 3d sense - which is not standard terminology - might be to say that a sufficiently complex mathematical system is not closed logically (or better, is logically open) because of Goedel's theorem.

  If God is able to act in the universe - as both classical and process theology hold - then we might say that the universe is theologically open. I.e., it is open to God's influence. But this needn't mean that God adds energy, momentum &c to it. The classical doctrine of providence says that God is active in everything that happens in the world through secondary causes - i.e., natural processes.

   If it is closed, how does this explain star formation.

  From the standpoint of physics, a star can form in a closed system. If you've got enough gas it will condense via its own gravitation & eventually its core will become hot enough to begin fusion reactions. (A greatly simplified picture of course.) Theologically, God brings the star into being by acting through gravitational, EM & nuclear forces.

  Admittedly, I am an old earth creationist who thinks we may very well be in a third or fourth star generation solar system. What if it is closed but expanding? Is this really closed? I can understand in this situation where the heat dissipates leading to disorganization but the energy is still energy - no matter the form.

  Present observations indicate that the universe (not just the solar system) is flat (i.e., its spatial geometry is Euclidean) & thus infinite in extent. But it could be that it's like the 3-surface of a 4-sphere so big that we don't see its curvature, as some inflationary theories suggest.

  Another example is a meteor striking the earth. Suppose the small meteor has been traveling through space for 3,000 years (YEC) and is approximately 0 Kelvin. The meteor then enters the earth's atmosphere. Upon impact with the earth, the potential energy of the meteor is converted to heat which then increases the ambient temperature of the local area. This causes a small fluctuation in weather. Is this actually disorganization or an increase in the energy of our open system?

  It's an increase in energy of the earth, which is an open system, & also an increase in entropy - i.e., disorder.

  I also agree with your statement about the acorns. A simple acorn becomes a mighty oak tree. This is definitely not disorganization. Squirrels eat acorns and other "dead" food causing them to live and give birth to much more complex babies. I don't see this as disorganization or the transition to disorder.

  Any comments from others, especially young earth creationists?
Received on Tue Jan 4 21:22:24 2005