Re: Whimpy Roots

On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 06:11:18 -0600 "Glenn Morton"
<glennmorton@entouch.net> writes:

> I was discussiong this issue with a sedimentologist who works for me
the
> other day. He suggested much of the following. He said that in the
mouth of
> the Mississippi, rooted vegetation by the distributary channel becomes
> floating vegetation away from the levee. A friend of his was leading a
field
> trip showing some oil industry execs how the vegetation was floating.
He
> jumped up and down on the floating vegetation to show them the waves,
when
> all of a sudden, the vegetation beneath him gave way. He fell
completely
> through the layer and disappeared. Everyone thought he was going to die
> because he didn't come back up through the hole. It was a full 30
seconds
> before he found his way to the edge of the floating vegetation and
climbed
> back on the raft to the relief of all those standing there.

Thanks, Glenn. Kevin had said that a floating mat of vegetative debris
would disperse. I forgot that these mats are alive and the roots would
intertwine to lock the mat together where it could support people and
dinosaurs.
 
> It is clear that the Pennsylvanian cyclothems were deposited on a very
flat
> topography.

Yes, flatter than any swamps on the face of the earth today. So where's
your modern analog?
 
> Such situations of floating vegetation, which we see today,
> probably would have applied to that situation. And that would allow an
> explantion of the partings. The partings occurred when muddy water
flooded
> the area. It filtered through the floating vegetation, left its shale.

That's amazing, Glenn, you and I have the same explanation for partings.
And thanks again - Kevin had hammered me when I said tonsteins were the
result of turbidity flows; I like your explanation that they filtered
down through the mats.
 
> And you know something, Bill? None of this requires the silliness of
> believing the unbelievable, which is what you constantly ask us to
> believe.

Careful, Glenn, that door swings both ways.

> I will go with what my sedimentologist suggested. It explains those
partings
> without trying to create big mysteries. And creating big unexplained
> mysteries is what YEC is all about.

You need to get just a little higher in your thinking. Think about the
top of the parting and ask your sedimentologist to explain how he
proposes to grow a swamp on top of a soft mud parting without
bioturbating it with roots and critters. Are you going to propose a
floating veggie mat?

> I think you have my book (not sure) but that photo is in there and it
has
> the layers marked (I believe, it is early and I don't want to go look
right
> now). Hint, count the dark layers.

Yes, I have your book. On what basis do you assume that the layers are
annual? If these roots represent a full year's growth, why are all the
roots vertical; why no radiating roots? Also, why are the roots so thin
and spaced out? Why are they so whimpy? Look at the roots attached to
clumps of grass growing in real swamps and wetlands today, and tell me if
those modern roots look like the ones in your photos.

> >Will you agree that the Herren coal with the three partings which
cover ~250,000 sq. miles is allochthonous? What about the
> > Pittsburg coal which we discussed years ago; is the Pittsburg
allochthonous?

> Not after speaking with my sedimentologist the other day. I suspect it
was
> much like the situation in which that field trip leader experienced.
That
> would make it autochthonous, but from an attached mat.

Attached to what? And where do the trees come from? Are they growing on
the mat? If so, then the mat must be thick enough to support the weight
of trees commonly several feet in diameter. If they come from adjacent
exposed land, then the swamp is not flat and therefore could not be an
analog for the Pennsylvanian cyclothems.

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Received on Tue Mar 9 00:13:05 2004