Re: Adam and Eve - myth?

Jim,
 
You are right, we have found common ground on which we agree - more so than you know. My response is somewhat similar to Walt's (wallyshoes) but different enough to warrant reading.
 
Christianity as a religion is often horrible. Many evil actions have been taken on behalf of Christianity that includes but is not limited to the pogroms of Russia, the Holocaust of Germany, the suppression of women, the mistreatment of people of color (Native Americans, blacks, Asians, etc), and that is just the past century. I choose not to be involved with some denominations because women are not allowed to teach or participate. As a woman I have often felt victimized by religion and religious people.
 
The good news is that man-made religions and man-made restrictions are completely separate from the freedom and good news of Jesus Christ. What you see as sexual restrictions I see as freedom from sexually transmitted diseases and the ability to have a more intimate relationship. When a man and woman are monogamous, intimacy is strengthened. When a man and woman have sex only with each other throughout their entire lives, they have no chance of contracting a sexually transmitted disease.
 
You are right about money, too. Many people give their discretionary income to the church - that's their choice. Many people also give their discretionary income to lotteries. I personally think of lotteries as a voluntary tax and sometimes as a stupid tax. I give to my church because God asked me to and I give what He asks me to give. To be honest, I give back to Him what belongs to Him and He allows me to keep alot of it for myself. By doing this, I can honestly say that I always have more than enough. I live very comfortably and am never in need.
 
You asked if I would want to know if Christianity is false. Of course - absolutely! Don't you want to know if it is true? I'm not "banking" on Christianity "just in case." I believe in God. I believe in Jesus Christ. I know deep in my heart, with every fiber of my being, that God is real - not just a religion.
 
Religion hurts because it's just a bunch of rules. God is not rules - He is truth and life more abundantly. He never asks us to give more than we can and He does not force us to do anything. If He did, you would be a believer right now.
 
Christianity has holes, huge holes, because we are imperfect people trying to understand perfection. Just because we don't understand does not make it false. This list has alot of people debating different issues, which I like. Debating issues and trying to understand does not change God.
 
My prayer for you is that you will honestly open your heart and seek God. Don't just give God a "chance," but really seek the truth. Don't let religion or people or rules govern your belief system. Don't seek man-made junk but seek reality, seek God.
 
One last note: I don't see the problems with the story of Adam and Eve that you do; I have honestly tried. I think our perspectives are just too different. I can promise you that I will never stop seeking the truth.
 
Sheila
 
 
 
 

Jim Eisele <jeisele@starpower.net> wrote:
Sheila writes

>Jim,
>
>Thanks for the suggestions for other sites. Interestingly, quite a few
people on this list have >found the discussion interesting.

Largely I disagree with members of this list. However, we seem to
share a dislike for fundamentalists (no offense, you seem nice).
I'm going to take the liberty of re-ordering your response. In a
sense, we 75% agree, and I'd like to present it that way. I don't
see any value in conflict for conflict's sake.

>I get to explore the infinite and dance while I do it! What you see as
restrictions I see as
>freedom to understand.

That sounds great for you! Mostly I am concerned about victims of religion,
and you don't sound like one. My primary concerns are money and sexuality.
Perhaps women don't feel the sexual restrictions of Christianity like men
do. But both men and women give a lot of their discretionary income to the
church. This is a real danger. And from a selfish standpoint, I would
prefer if Christians had less political influence. That would mean less
restrictive sexual laws, and perhaps more objectivity from political
leadership.

>We all have restrictions no matter what we believe in.

True.

>You asked if I would punish an infant for crying. The answer is of course
not, the infant is
>crying for a reason, doesn't know any better, and I need to find out why.

Fair enough. No disagreement, here.

>I have much more freedom because I get to follow both, even though God's
voice is much more
>reliable than my own.

Like I said, you don't sound like a victim.

>What about the five year old that runs into the street, gets hit by a car,
and dies? I have
>repeatedly told the child not to run into the street because the
consequences could be death or
>extreme injury. Does the five year old understand the consequences? No -
even though I have
>repeatedly explained that the child will be hurt or will die. Those are the
consequences.

No disagreement here, either. Sometimes bad, unavoidable things happen.
I wish I had super powers to prevent things like this (I guess we all wish
we had such powers).

>I choose to follow some restrictions that others choose not to follow -
it's my choice.

Fair enough. We all make choices as we see fit.

>That doesn't make sense to me. By choice, you have placed restrictions on
yourself. For
>example, you choose not to follow the "still, small voice" but to follow
your own instincts or
>beliefs. You have restricted yourself to specific, known, verifiable
parameters -

Fair enough.

>You also said that "non-believers have far less restrictions." Is this your
reason for not
>believing?

It's a benefit. And an encouragement to Christians to seek truth, on
the chance that they may be wrong. If Christians see no sacrifice in
their faith (you don't mention sacrifice in yours), then they won't have
incentive to investigate the other side of the story. This is OK with me
for the most part (live and let live), although I am still affected by
Christian legislative restrictions.

>The difference between the child/me and the adult/God is that God can and
does take the
>punishment/consequences of my sins. He died a spiritual death so I wouldn't
have to. He
>sacrificed Himself to become my Savior

Standard Christian theology. This doesn't seem like the time or place
to discuss this in detail. I'll let it go - it's not at all central to
the point that I am making about Adam & Eve.

>so that I might have eternal life with Him.

Once again, standard Christian theology. I assume that you would live
your life differently if you knew this was false (or believed it was
false). But I don't argue that this is standard Christian theology
for one moment.

>The story doesn't fall apart - it makes perfect sense.

I doubt that you were expecting me to let this go. And I can't, because
this is the very point that I am making. The Adam and Eve story does not
make sense at all. I'm always a bit conflicted when pointing out holes
in Christianity. I wonder, would a Christian want to know (really want
to know) if they were wrong? Or would they prefer the illusion of
Christianity to what they perceive life would be without Christianity?

I really don't know the answer to this. Speaking for myself, I would
want to know if Christianity was false. It seems that women may care
less (but maybe this isn't the case). Generally Christians say they
care about the truth. I don't think I've ever heard a Christian say,
"I'd rather be Christian and wrong than atheist and right" but I suspect
this may be the attitude of some.

This doesn't seem to be the appropriate list to pursue this further.
You seem happy in your faith, and I wish you the best.

Jim

Sheila McGinty Wilson
sheila-wilson@sbcglobal.net
Received on Tue Dec 30 17:35:10 2003