From: allenroy (allenroy@peoplepc.com)
Date: Sun Oct 05 2003 - 15:46:23 EDT
Glenn Morton wrote:
> >I simply asked for the evidence you said you had found and all I get is
> assertions and pontification.
>
> I am not sure what evidence you want,
In the case being discussed, Roberts claimed that he had found 100 misquotes by
Woodmorappe. I simply asked him to back up his claim. And he cannot or will
not supply it.
You know, as well as I, that if I had made any such claim as Roberts made, that
you, and over a half-a-dozen others on this list, would jump on me with both
feet demanding my evidence. Yet, Roberts makes an unsupported assertion and no
one but me asks for his evidence. And when I do, I'm treated like I'm
questioning the Almighty.
> The two models of the world, young-earth and old earth have differing
> predictions when it comes to the Hawaiian islands. The young-earth view has
> the islands forming about the same time--in the global flood. This model
> would predict that the islands should all look about the same.
A Flood Cataclysmist view is that the Pacific plate moved NW across the volcanic
source/hot spot (or vice verse) during the Flood Cataclysm creating the islands.
> As one goes further from Kilauea the elevation of the volcanoes gets lower and
> there is more evidence of erosion. All indicators agree that the farther north
> one goes along the chain the older are the volcanic islands.
The oldest islands would would be the ones to the North. They would also be the
most eroded because they would have come up during the cataclysm, where as those
to the south came up during the latter, less catastrophic, stages of the flood
and finally the Hawaiian Islands may have come up afterward.
> Why is there a systematic increase in age in the direction that continental
> drift is moving the ocean floor?
The "increase in age" simply reflects the change in the chemical composition of
the volcanic source/hot spot as the Pacific plate moved across it (or vice
verse). There may have been a depletion of certain elements from the source
over a short time which gives the false impression of long time when interpreted
within isometric dating methodology.
Allen
>
>
> The old-earth view has the islands forming slowly over millions of years
> from a hotspot on the ocean floor. As drift moves the seafloor crust past
> the volcanic hotspot, the Hawaiian islands are carried northward. This model
> would predict that as one goes north, the radioactive dates should get
> older, the islands should be more highly eroded and thus topographically
> lower eventually disappearing beneath the waves as one goes north.
> What do we see? The table below shows a list of islands, their distance from
> Kilauea (the present site of the volcanic hotspot(Kilauea has been erupting
> nearly continuously from 1983). Kilauea is the tallest of the islands and
> the heights drop as one goes north. Volcanism also decreases as one goes
> north along the chain. Here is the table.
> Ages of some of the Hawaiian Islands and outer seamounts
>
> (see note at table bottom)
> Volcano Volcano Distance from Best K-Ar Data Source
> Number Name Kilauea along age (Ma) (tabulated below)
> trend of chain
> (km)
>
> 1 Kilauea 0 0-0.4 --
> 3 Mauna Kea 54 0.375 + 0.05 1
> 5 Kohala 100 0.43 + 0.02 2
> 6 Haleakala 182 0.75 + 0.04 3
> 7 Kahoolawe 185 > 1.03 + 0.18 3
> 8 West Maui 221 1.32 + 0.04 4
> 9 Lanai 226 1.28 + 0.04 5
> 10 East Molokai 256 1.76 + 0.04 3
> 11 West Molokai 280 1.90 + 0.06 3
> 12 Koolau 339 2.6 + 0.1 4,6
> 13 Waianae 374 3.7 + 0.1 6
> 14 Kauai 519 5.1 + 0.20 7
> 15 Niihau 565 4.89 + 0.11 8
> 15A Kaula 600 4.0 + 0.2 21
> 17 Nihoa 780 7.2 + 0.3 9
> 20 Unnamed 913 9.2 + 0.8
> Unnamed 930 9.6 + 0.8 22
> 23 Necker 1,058 10.3 + 0.4 9
> 26 La Perouse
> Pinnacles 1,209 12.0 + 0.4 9
> 27 Brooks Bank 1,256 13.0 + 0.6 20
> 1,330 13.0 + 0.6 22
> 30 Gardner
> Pinnacles 1,435 12.3 + 1.0 20
> 1,460 12.3 + 1.0 22
> 36 Laysan 1,818 19.9 + 0.3 10
> 37 Northampton
> Bank 1,841 26.6 + 2.7 10
> 50 Pearl and
> Hermes Reef 2,281 20.6 + 2.7 11
> 52 Midway 2,432 27.7 + 0.6 12
> 57 Unnamed 2,600 28.0 + 0.4 11
> 63 Unnamed 2,825 27.4 + 0.5 11
> 65 Colohan 3,128 38.6 + 0.3 13
> 65A Abbott 3,280 38.7 + 0.9 13
> 67 Daikakuji 3,493 42.4 + 2.3 14
> 69 Yuryaku 3,520 43.4 + 1.6 11
> 72 Kimmei 3,668 39.9 + 1.2 14
> 74 Koko
> southern) 3,758 48.1 + 0.8 14,15
> 81 Ojin 4,102 55.2 + 0.7 16
> 83 Jingu 4,175 55.4 + 0.9 17
> 86 Nintoku 4,452 56.2 + 0.6 16
> 90 Suiko
> (southern) 4,794 59.6 + 0.6 18,19
> 91 Suiko
> (central) 4,860 64.7 + 1.1 16
> Data Sources:
>
> 1. Porter and others (1977) 12. Dalrymple and others (1977)
>
> 2. McDougall and Swanson (1972) 13. Duncan and Clague (1984)
>
> 3. Naughton and others (1980) 14. Dalrymple and Clague (1976)
>
> 4. Mcdougall (1964) 15. Clague and Dalrymple (1973)
>
> 5. Bonhommet and others (1977) 16. Dalrymple and others (1980a)
>
> 6. Doel and Dalrymple (1973) 17. Dalrymple and Garcia (1980)
>
> 7. McDougall (1979) 18. Saito and Ozima (1975)
>
> 8. G.B. Dalrymple 19. Saito and Ozima (1977)
> (unpub. Data, 1982)
>
> 9. Dalrymple and others (1974) 20. Garcia and others (1986b)
>
> 10. Dalrymple and others(1981) 21.Garcia and others (1986a)
>
> 11. Clague and others (1975) 22. Garcia and Others (1987)
>
> Other Notes:
>
> "Volcano Number" refers to the number in sequence along the Hawaiian Chain.
> Loihi, the youngest expression of the Hawaiian hot spot is number 0, Kilauea
> is number 1, etc.. Note that not all volcanoes are listed in the table
> (e.g., number 2 = Mauna Loa and number 4 = Hualalai); also note that further
> up the chain, the numbering scheme becomes more subjective.
> http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/GG/HCV/haw_formation.html
> accessed 10-3-03
>
>
>
> Why is there a systematic increase
> in age in the direction that continental drift is moving the ocean floor?
>
>
> Can anyone, without discussing my spiritual condition, explain this data
> within a global flood perspective?
> **
>
> [note] On theology web everytime I post scientific data, they cluck their
> tongues about my spiritual condition.
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