Re: RATE

From: Dawsonzhu@aol.com
Date: Sun Oct 05 2003 - 09:19:48 EDT

  • Next message: Glenn Morton: "RE: RATE"

    Michael Roberts wrote:

    > > I understand that in England, YEC is growing. If so, then thanks are
    > probably
    > > owed to Dawkins.
    >
    > And above all to the high pressure propaganda of AIG and ICR, whose lies are
    > accepted at face value because evangelicals don't tell porkies.
    >

    I think Walt has a point here. I don't think this creation/evolution issue
    has
    much to do with science at all. It seems to be more like a reactionary
    response to a perceived threat to the Christian faith. I don't know if it
    comes down to personality, interests, or what, but I encounter people
    who are very uncomfortable with even the very idea of questioning that
    "book of facts" interpretation of the religious texts. They naturally want
    an "excuse" for why their mind is made up like that, but even if they don't
    have one, I don't think it would make any difference.

    I think I might be able to offer a bit of an analogy. Here in Japan, the
    number
    of Christians is less than 1%. If you come to Japan, you would see a modern
    country with technology and materialism that can rival any western country,
    (although strangely, they only recently discovered broadband). It is a
    country
    with laws and a professional legal system that is basically as reliable as
    the law
    in any western country. It seems about as probable that a judge would accept
    a bribe here as it would in the UK or the US. In short, not so highly
    likely.
    Basically, the system is fair, and is certainly fair for Japanese citizens.
    It does
    have some major hangups for foreigners, but compared to the kind of mess you
    could get entangled in here in some countries in Asia, I would say it is
    basically
    fair.

    Yet, everywhere you go in Japan, there are all sorts of Shinto shrines and
    various small places where offerings can be made. Shinto is basically only a

    few steps above the idol worship of the Caananites. There are countless gods

    to whom these offerings can be made for all sorts of things people want.
    It is as incongruous admixture of impressions where technology has rapidly
    advanced, yet religion has remained in at little higher than a primitive
    tribal
    level.

    But why are Japanese so accepting of western technology, yet so stubbornly
    resistant to even the very thought of western religion penetrating their
    lives? Well, obviously some of it is rooted in reaction to Western
    imperialism, but I perceive a deeper reason, because they would also have
    rejected western technology if it was mere reaction to the West. It is more
    like
    the influence of Western values (conflated as western religion) is perceived
    as
    polluting their "traditional values". (Actually, by accepting any old
    so-and-so
    that comes with the technology, they are probably permitting far more
    unfiltered
    "pollution" than any traditional religion could possible do, but that is the
    perception.)
    At any rate, it seems to be an ingrained stubborn and almost unreasoning
    resistance in some cases --- very similar to what I see of many creationist.

    It really wouldn't matter what you say, what example you set, how you live
    your
    life, or anything else you could do. This is simply the way things are done
    here
    in Japan and that is that. The people most likely to come to Christianity in
    Japan
    are the people for whom "tradition" as caused serious harm in their lives.
    That,
    or Japanese who have gone to the Western world and somehow found out that
    Christians are not the "evil ogres" they were told in bedtime stories. This
    is
    the "good old fashioned family values"drivel told with an Eastern twist.

    So I think there are parallels with what is happening amongst some
    Christians.
    They perceive the schools as controlled by atheists looking for converts.
    They hear of this "evolution" is being taught in the schools, and they hear
    of
    this Dawkins guy who says that evolution gives him an excuse to be an
    atheist.
    At some level, this is sort of like finding out that your son's friends are
    taking
    drugs. You'd want to do something about it. Now, in the case of drugs, it
    probably is better to be unreasoning and go after the problem, but for
    matters
    of real thinking and choices, it has a lot of potential to backfire. That is
    basically
    what you see with people who leave Christianity because they can eventually
    find out that science and scientist are not the "evil ogres" that they were
    told
    in their bedtime stories.

    Moreover, before I was saved (in college) and long before I took any interest

    in science, I did perceive that we were being taught that evolution showed
    the Bible was false. In retrospect, it was probably my own misconceptions
    and surprise that led me to these conclusions, but adolescence is a
    difficult time, where awareness of freedom is perceived, but wisdom takes
    much longer develop. At any rate, parents who chose to respond that God
    can create through evolution too, would probably be much wiser (in my
    opinion) than the parents who say "absolutely not and that's that". They
    almost guarantee that their children will avoid science to keep their
    "values"
    and that is unlikely to be good for some of them.

    What I don't quite understand about YEC folk is that even at that time,
    with all the raging hormonal processes and rebel-without-a-cause matters
    of adolescence, I knew deep in my heart-of-hearts that God actually
    could have equally created through evolution. I sometimes used it to
    shut Christians out with "the buzzword", but I could not run away from
    that thought in the back of my mind.

    Is it that some people just simply don't even want to consider
    examining any other possibilities than a 6000 year old earth? Is it that
    they
    just want to be left alone and don't want to be challenged to think? Is it
    fear
    of facing oneself and doubt? I can understand doubt, but this level of
    denial is hard for me to understand.

    I can accept this "simulation" example that Walt puts forward, although I
    also find it a bit mischievous of God. I could accept it as humor, but
    considering the acrimonious exchanges I sometimes see, I don't quite
    understand the point of this "humor", if this is supposed to be God.

    By Grace alone we proceed,
    Wayne



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